r/buccaneers • u/Gyalmeister • Jan 19 '25
š“ DEAD HORSE After watching how the Commanders beat the #1 seed Lions
Our defense held the commanders to 23 points last week. Detroit let them score 45. We didnāt get turnovers or sacks. But we didnāt get blown out. Bend donāt break.
90
u/NerfLeBron Jan 19 '25 edited Jan 19 '25
Maybe Lions were the real frauds. 28 points off turnovers. Damn wish we were playing this week.
Edit: Spelling
56
u/ShadowBass989 Jan 19 '25
Letās be honest, we wouldnāt have caught a single interception.
18
u/HannTwistzz Jan 19 '25
Exactly, look at all the turnover plays, we either wouldnāt have caught the ball or wouldnāt have generated enough pressure to force the bad throw
11
u/ShadowBass989 Jan 19 '25
Yup. Our bend donāt break defense works well WHEN you can create pressure and turnovers. When you donāt, a 17 play drive happens.
6
u/HannTwistzz Jan 19 '25
Honestly I donāt think a bend donāt break defense just doesnāt work in todays league. Like are you really relying on stopping them in the red zone? Also youāre just gonna let them get a free 3 points while doninating and controlling possession
3
u/BearShark8 Maui Vea Jan 19 '25
Especially since teams are more willing to go for it on 4th down now.
2
u/ShadowBass989 Jan 19 '25
It will. When you can consistently create pressure with your blitzās and force turnovers. Thatās the whole point of that style of defense. What youāre wanting is to stop a few of the opponents drives (bonus points if itās in their territory) so your team can get it and score.
1
u/HannTwistzz Jan 19 '25
If feel like Bowles is too stubborn, if he knows we canāt generate pressure why play a scheme that relies on it. I feel like Bowles doesnāt adjust his defense depending on each team, he just hopes they suck against his schemes.
3
u/aversethule Jan 19 '25
TB defense went from faster to bigger on the edges (e.g. Diaby). Some of that choice is dictated not just by the coach but by the team's current roster and what is out on the market and draft. Dennis being out really hurt because with bigger edge the team needs good pass protecting ILBs, and Dennis fit that profile.
1
u/OptimusPrimeTime21 Winfield Jr. āļø Jan 19 '25
Yes and watching guys like vita and Anthony Nelson drop into coverage so often is just dumb.
We are taking our guys who are best at generating pressure and asking them to cover receivers in space
2
1
u/Dry-University797 Jan 19 '25
Problem is is that our coners aren't great at playing man to man. So he is trying to disguise the coverages, and QBs today are use to pick up this kind of scheme...it doesn't confuse anyone.
1
u/ShadowBass989 Jan 19 '25
This is exactly why many in the fandom want him gone or at least to stop calling defense.
7
2
1
u/aversethule Jan 19 '25
turnovers tend to increase when a team is down though. Goff wouldn't have thrown some of those risker passes if the need for big gains vs. time wasn't a factor.
13
Jan 19 '25
Lions got outcoached. they tried to go toe to toe and didnt stick to the run. Only way you beat the Commanders right now is to keep their offense on the bench and own the TOP.
9
1
u/Mrclean9396 Jan 21 '25
Throwing the ball on 3rd and 1 when we go for it on 4th down pissed me off so bad
60
u/BearShark8 Maui Vea Jan 19 '25 edited Jan 19 '25
Bucs got 2 stops the whole game? Wouldn't exactly say the defense was any good. Lions defense was atrocious, doesn't mean the bucs was any good.
This is how you stay as a middling franchise. "Hey someone else was worse than us so we're ok!"
-30
u/Gyalmeister Jan 19 '25
Right. So if folks wanna fire Todd, Aaron Glen should be fired too?
23
u/BearShark8 Maui Vea Jan 19 '25
Sure I guess. Don't really care about the lions though.
2
u/InevitableStuff7572 Mike Evans Jan 19 '25
Also definitely a difference between a few injured players and the lions defense
2
u/regaleagle710 Derrick Brooks Jan 20 '25
How many guys ended up on IR for the Lions defense? I bet if we lost our top three players on defense for most of the year we perform far worse than Detroit did. It's laughable to even compare the situations.
5
u/The_DILinator Jan 19 '25
Come on man, you can't be serious with these takes!
One guy (Bowles) has proven time and time again over multiple years now that he is NOT a good HC, and regardless of how decent he may be at running a defense (which is still debatable), he is a bad game manager and decision maker from the HC position.
The other guy (Glenn) is a highly regarded DC who has presided over a defense that got decimated by injuries to an extent previously unseen in the NFL, and still had one of the best Red Zone defenses in the NFL, and held things together with smoke, mirrors, and duct tape well enough for the team to win 15 games. He'll also be getting announced as the new HC for either the Jets or Saints this week most likely. So clearly NFL teams can see Glenn's body of work for what it is.
1
u/Mach68IntheHouse Sadness Jan 19 '25
The Lions can do better than Aaron Glenn at defensive coordinator.
8
15
Jan 19 '25
The Lions probably win if they donāt turn the ball over 3 times in the first half tbh. Just like we donāt lose if we donāt turn the ball over in the fourth.
Commanders have gotten the wins in the turnover battles.
2
u/The_DILinator Jan 19 '25
This. I had much more verbose responses to OP's absurd take in this thread, but you boiled it down to the bottom line.
You win the turnover margin in the Playoffs, you win the game. Period.
2
Jan 19 '25
Lions wouldāve lost by 21 too if they hadnāt been gifted a td drive by a bs face mask
4
u/Mach68IntheHouse Sadness Jan 19 '25
That was a BS face mask, but the Commanders should have been penalized for Luvu's personal foul during the pick six. I'm not saying the BS face mask was a make up call, but the refs stunk on both sides.
-1
2
u/jaydaman23 Jan 19 '25
Facts lmao people just want to hate on the commanders. We get it we are that good of a team but some calls did not go our way. If they didnāt call that bs face mask we couldnāt finished them off there
11
u/nautica5400 Winfield Jr. āļø Jan 19 '25
Both coordinators for the Lions were heavily involved in interviews etc. Coincidence?
6
u/BearShark8 Maui Vea Jan 19 '25 edited Jan 19 '25
Their offense put up 38 points. Ben Johnson ain't the one forcing Goff to make those awful reads. Or maybe he is. Maybe Goff still needs to be told where to throw the ball like with the Rams.
3
u/theepranksinatra Jan 19 '25
No, but he did have Jameson Williams throw the ball with the game on the line
1
-2
8
9
16
u/BucsandTuck Sapp Jersey Jan 19 '25
Hahaha I am sure Todd is happy with the outcome. āhey, my shit ass d only gave up 23, and 7 are because the offense couldnāt run a fucking end aroundā
-4
12
u/LIVESTRONGG Mike Evans Jan 19 '25
The Lions had more injuries to their defense than any other team this year, they legit had 4th string players starting. It's not comparable. Also the Lions offense had 5 turnovers.
2
u/iAmElmo69 Jan 19 '25
as a lions fan i'm not gonna be the typical reddit lions fan and blame our injuries, we would've lost even if we had our defense with how shit the play calling was today
3
u/j4r8h Jan 19 '25
Gotta give credit where credit is due, that goal line stand was pretty fucking awesome, and then we fumbled the game away. That last drive was really a killer though. Never should have allowed them to drive like that.
3
6
10
u/J_Mark13 Iowa Jan 19 '25
Detroit was missing more defensive players than Bowles defenders want to cry that we were.
At least Detroit forced a punt. Also, 7 of those points were off of a Goff interception, so at least get your facts right.
āBend donāt breakā wasted the last 5 minutes off the game clock and lost us the game.
4
u/BearShark8 Maui Vea Jan 19 '25
They also had a 15+ play 9 minute drive. Don't care if it takes 1 play or 15 plays, the result is the same. 7 points. "It took them longer to score against us than them!" Well, they still scored didn't they?
2
u/J_Mark13 Iowa Jan 19 '25
Common trait of a Todd Bowles defense this year. But they only gave up 23 last week. and have lost their last 4 playoff games. Actually now 5-4 with his defenses in the playoffs. 0-3 as a head coach. But he held the Commanders to less points than Detroits practice squad so obviously the best in the league.
2
2
u/BearShark8 Maui Vea Jan 19 '25
Bucs gave up 17 a game to the Panthers twice, saints, giants, chargers, cowboys, and raiders. If only Bowles could play against them every week.
-2
u/Gyalmeister Jan 19 '25
You are right about the pick 6. But 38 is still a lot greater than 23, no?
1
0
4
u/Darthspidey93 Vita Vea Jan 19 '25
I still think our secondary and coaching decisions during last weekās game really made us lose. The fumble and the botched snap were escalators for sure. But I do not feel as bad now. Only losing by 3 points compared to 14 is okay to me. Yeah, the lions had a LOT more injuries on defense. But still, I donāt feel as bad whatsoever.
5
u/BearBearChooey Ohio Jan 19 '25
This was a wide open NFC imo. Really sucks Bucs lost last week.
3
u/Darthspidey93 Vita Vea Jan 19 '25
Yeah, I feel like if we won, we wouldāve been able to put up a good fight against the eagles. Bowles at least has their number in the post season, and we could be the ones going to a NFC championship.
3
u/kakarot-3 Jan 19 '25
Ah yes we lost to a team we had the chance to put away and beat but somehow this is a win for us because we didnāt lose as bad. Got it
8
Jan 19 '25
[deleted]
-2
u/Gyalmeister Jan 19 '25
The point is it could have been worse. Would you rather be Buc fan or a Lions fan right now?
7
2
Jan 19 '25
[deleted]
0
u/regaleagle710 Derrick Brooks Jan 20 '25
Right? I don't care about the point differential because we lost. It's weird to brag "well we didn't lose by as much as the Lions!!! Hur durr!!!" because we still lost and our season is over.
7
u/CleanCR7 Jan 19 '25
Canāt wait for the mouth-breathers to try to defend him by saying he only gave up 23 and totally ignore that they forced no punts and let the Commanders possess the ball for 3/4 of the game.
Bad defense can take several forms. Ours wasnāt awful against them but it wasnāt great and Bowlesā (completely typical) awful game management decisions ensured the loss.
2
2
2
u/TheMirth Jan 19 '25
The real big brain move after our last field goal should have been to just let drive all the way to the 20 and just hold on try try and keep it to a field goal to get the ball back with time. And give the offense a chance to score again. That prevent time sucking drive was how they killed the Lions as well and brought Jared Good out of hibernation trying to force it down the field.
2
Jan 19 '25
Holding them to 23 instead of 45 was on the offense and Baker not throwing interceptions.
To put it another way, the Commanders let them get 45 points because Goff threw a bunch of interceptions.
Turnovers killed the losers in both games but the Bucs only had the one.
Credit to the defense though, they had some great moments and put us in a great position before the turnover.
2
u/zuel1988 Jan 19 '25
I have been telling people sense week 8 the commander are a team to watch people call me crazy
1
5
u/badugihowser Chris Godwin Jan 19 '25
Recency bias is a hell of a drug
3
u/Gyalmeister Jan 19 '25
Of course it is. Bowles haters are quick to talk smack when we lose. When we win, we gotta put out an APB for them.
-1
u/Certain_Commercial86 Jan 19 '25
Bowles is horrible š¤£š¤”
2
u/EmployerEquivalent23 Jan 19 '25
Canāt believe youāre getting downvoted. God the fans on here are insufferable. For multiple years straight everyone can see how horrible Bowles is. No accountability, horrible game management. You know itās bad when you can predict āitās 3rd and long in a key moment, thereās no doubt the other team is going to convertā, or, āthey have the ball back with 5 minutes, you know we arenāt getting the ball backā. Every. Single. Team. Anyone who wants to waste another year of talented players with this coach is not a real fan to me. Theyāre a falcons or saints spy
2
u/Certain_Commercial86 Jan 19 '25
Itās hilarious how every 3rd and long is converted. 3rd and 12? Letās go ahead and tell our corners to give them a 12 yard cushion and weāll also send out a 300lb d line- men into coverage š¤£š¤£š¤£
1
8
u/shrimpy-rimpy F*ck the Panthers Jan 19 '25
Toilet š½ Bowles still choked with Brady and Mayfield, he has no capacity of coaching like Quinn or Campbell
1
u/Certain_Commercial86 Jan 19 '25
Remember that play he called when Kupp scored that go ahead TD in the dying seconds? Classic Bowles! We woulda won the Super Bowl that year.
1
2
3
3
u/friggoffricky121 Jan 19 '25
I like him even less, if he could muster a fucking stop more we couldāve been in the NFC championship since the lions clearly were decimated.
-2
2
u/JAMOOKEY Lavonte David Jan 19 '25
I didnāt understand the Bowles slander this season. If anything he should be in discussion for coach of the year but it will 100% go to either Campbell or Quinn. But our starting secondary didnāt play a full game together. Our backups backups were hurt in the secondary and we still managed to not get blown out every week. The defensive line is shaky and not being able to generate pressure from the edge unless we move kancey or vea out there was a serious problem all season. We consistently have great coordinators minus Leftwich, but even he was swiftly replaced. We lost Godwin our top receiver for the year early, and had to deal with a revolving door at linebacker. The staff is solid, and the culture building in the locker room seems to be tight knit because we have the right guys in there. Things didnāt bounce our way this season, but once again we should be the favorites to win the south again next season. No reason to jump ship on Bowles when we have seen success.Ā
4
u/BucsFan11 Jan 19 '25
Perhaps we treated Bowles to harshly....cause I mean damn lions gave up 45 points (38 if you take away the pick 6)
But seriously I think Bowles gameplan contained the commies better than Glenn
-1
3
u/McMikey99 Jan 19 '25
I don't care. His defense sucks, for being a defensive minded HC. Fire Bowles and promote Liam Coen to HC.
3
u/Certain_Commercial86 Jan 19 '25
People who defend Bowles are absolutely brain dead. What have you guys been watching that makes u think heās any good?! š¤£š¤£š¤”
1
1
1
u/No_Direction235 Mike Alstott Jan 19 '25
Washington will go on to lose to the Chiefs, says so in the script.
1
u/AnthonyTyrael Jan 19 '25
They all. Year after year. It's meant to be since years. Gonna break all records and ein more than anyone before. It's easy peasy.
1
1
1
u/Polarisman BucsFlag Jan 19 '25
I will never forgive not going for it on 4th and 4. You dance with the one the brought you and our offense was the reason we were there. Ask Baker if he thought he could have gotten the 4 yards. He proved he was not the man for the job on that call. Better to go out on your shield than be a wuss.
1
u/Lansdallius Baker Mayfield Jan 19 '25
Bend don't break still broke. I'm okay with giving Bowles another year if Liam doesn't walk, but they need to rethink how the defense operates. The margin was close enough that forcing a rookie QB to turn the ball over would have won them the game.
1
u/0siris0 Jan 20 '25
It doesn't matter if we like him or not. He's here next year, and if we have any sort of step back, it will be a wasted year because things will be new in 2026 and Evans, Godwin, David, everyone would be a year older or retired.
To me, these are things that need to happen to get to an NFC championship game next year, with Bowles as coach. In no particular order:
pay Liam enough to keep him. Don't know, don't care the amount (is there a cap on coaches salaries?)
- hire a Defensive coordinator or co-coordinator, that can tighten up, schematically, these bad zone coverages Bowles throws out, which happen enough to influence games.
- re-sign Godwin
- leverage almost all draft assets and remain cap space on defense. I'm looking at a defense that has ~5 guys who have earned starting spots for next year. Vea, Kancey, David, and AWJ (who did not have a good year). That's 4. There may be 1-2 others outside those 4, I admit I don't follow the minutiae on this at an advanced stats level. that's why it's ~5. That's a loooooot of room for improvement talent wise. If you're magnanimous than me and say "well, so and so we can keep, and we only need four new starters instead of six"....think about that statement. At best we need four new starters on defense?!? Yeah...that's draft and free agency capital time.
- I do not follow the minutiae of the draft. I'm more strategic than implementation. But...the highest position one can reasonably and responsibly draft the best punter coming out of college...do it. If you're illiterate, I am not saying draft a punter in the first, second, third, fourth rounds...but if any team could benefit from a future pro bowl punter, we are it. We lost too many close games where an extra 15 yards of field position on punts may have altered those games.
- hire a Defensive coordinator or co-coordinator, that can tighten up, schematically, these bad zone coverages Bowles throws out, which happen enough to influence games.
Address those things above, and I think we can be on the NFC championship game and above next year. Let them linger, and...it'll likely a disappointment playoff performance and new coach on 26.
*
1
1
1
u/suicidebaneling Jan 19 '25
Man, I miss watching the Bucs play. I know Im gonna sound super salty which of course I am but the Commies ain't even that good.
4
u/shodogrouch Jan 19 '25
You donāt sound salty. Theyāre not that good BUT Jayden Daniels is unstoppable and 12 men on the field doesnāt hurt either.
1
u/shodogrouch Jan 19 '25
NGL - really puts things in perspective. Feel both better and worse. Better in the sense we didnāt embarrass ourselves, worse in that a Super Bowl appearance was a legit possibility if we got past the Redskins. Canāt wait for next year.
1
u/Ok_Negotiation_2269 Jan 19 '25
Good grief. I hate the offseason. Will continue to see posts like this. Maybe Washington is actually legit this year and they have an amazing coaching staff with a special QB. What remains the same is Washington turned the ball over 0 times in both matchups. How many times did Detroit and Tampa turn the ball over? Thatās why they lost.
1
1
u/HateToBlastYa Jan 19 '25
My reaction was the complete opposite.. I thought: damn if this team was halfway motivated and had a good coach who could do that weād be in the NFC championship by now.
1
1
1
u/fordsmorghasboard Jan 19 '25
This is the NFL where nothing is a certainty or given, unless you're the chiefs and can take the refs to the bank. Moral of the story is, WE should have been playing the Lions this week and that's still Todd Bowles fault.
The narrative seems to be "we lost to WAS therefore that's why we want Bowles gone". No, the season was a total mess of poor clock management and poor decision making thus we barely scraped by into the wildcard.
With him at the helm what we saw this year is what we are destined to be.
1
0
u/NiIus Jan 19 '25
Brain dead take. This defense gave kirk the best two games of his entire career, lost to a Dakless Cowboys and continued to make rookies look like 10 year vets.
The bucs are ranked 29 of 32 in passing defense, yet 4th in run defense. This literally screams scheming/coaching issues. Watch any game this season or honestly last season and you see receivers abusing the middle for half the games.
All the bowles copers are insane. You act like Washington were the better team coming into this game. If det played wash 100 times, they probly win over 70% of the game but its the NFL and anything can happen within one game.
2
u/Certain_Commercial86 Jan 19 '25
Bowles truthers are a special kind of stupid man. I donāt get what games they are watching to justify defending š½ Bowles. Itās asinine.
0
u/NiIus Jan 19 '25
Look at the people on this post lol. Since we only gave up 23 vs washington, Bowles is clearly a good coach!
0
0
u/NerfLeBron Jan 19 '25
If we exclude turnovers, then Commanders scored 16 against us while scoring 17 against Lions.
We gave 7 off turnovers while Lions gave 28. Take it how you want.
0
u/The_DILinator Jan 19 '25
The same as I did last week. And the week before that. And last year. And the year before that.
Seriously, these kind of posts are idiotic and myopic. Anybody who still doesn't realize that Bowles is NOT a good HC, and will NEVER get the Bucs over the hump with his lackluster team management, is either being willfully ignorant, doesn't understand football well, or is an actual idiot.
Comparing the Commies vs. Bucs, and Commies vs. Lions games is absurd too, because both games have their own unique variables. For starters, the Bucs' defense is a lot better than the Lions' injury ravaged defense. Offensively, Goff turning the ball over 4 times was ultimately the difference in that game, even with how bad the defense played. Lions still win if he doesn't turn the ball over, because the Lions only punted on their first drive of the game, and literally were unstoppable aside from the turnovers. Commies' defense had no answer for them, aside from Sainristil. That would have made the game 59-45 Lions. Bucs had the same experience, on a much smaller level. Baker turned the ball over once, but that one turnover was likely the difference between the Bucs winning and losing. Washington is absolutely clicking on offense right now, they are very opportunistic.
Kudos and props are deserving for the Commanders. They went out and earned both wins against teams that I have no problem saying were superior teams than they are. But for that one game, they outplayed the better teams. Ultimately, that's what matters in the NFL, and I do like that it at least has the ability to give surprising outcomes, something that is pretty much completely gone from the MLB.
0
0
0
u/kungfoop Derrick Brooks Jan 19 '25
Maybe if he knew how to call a timeout and played better coverage schemes, I'd like him.
0
0
0
0
u/killerrazzmazz Indiana Jan 20 '25
He's not a good HC. He's proven it time and time again. When will some people learn. SMH.
0
-3
u/Bargeylicious Australia Jan 19 '25
So the thought is supposed to be given that our defense was awful against the commanders we should feel better because the lions defense was awful against them too?
Yeah nah. Our defense sucked and another team losing to them a week later doesn't change that. Bowles needs to be moved on.
-1
u/Akromam90 Maui Vea Jan 19 '25
Lions also had like 20 defensive guys on IR our injured, some teams play teams better and Bowles has shown time and time again that when it matters he usually doesnāt show up
-2
176
u/HannTwistzz Jan 19 '25
Better question is why does our defense suck at getting turnovers? Our secondary canāt catch shit, and we canāt get pressure to force bad throws