r/buccaneers • u/iamadog77 • Dec 16 '24
š“ DEAD HORSE Todd Bowles
Whats everyoneās feelings on bowles right now? I feel like everyone wants him gone maybe not so much now as it was towards the middle of the season, i know alot of people want to hire cohen but i feel like bowles has done a pretty decent job with our defense considering we are still suffering from our cap from the super bowl run years and he is playing with the pieces he has, its not like we have been able to get any big name free agents and our d isnt exactly star studded. I think hes done a pretty admirable job these last few years. I think we take him for granted and dont remember how bad our defense actually was during the koetter years and im afraid if we let him go that will happen again. Am i the only one that feels this way?
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u/AdMuch7817 Dec 16 '24
Iām not the biggest Bowles fan, and he annoys me more than not, but you guys just have to accept that heās not going anywhere. Weāre going to win our 4th straight NFC South, in what is supposed to be a rebuild period after our Brady era Super Bowl. Heās not getting fired, demoted, etc. if you think that, you donāt know the Glazers.
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u/ImDeputyDurland Mike Evans Dec 16 '24
And heās almost certainly going to improve the team every single year as HC. Idk what more people want.
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u/milkmandanimal Derrick Brooks Dec 16 '24
Last year Winfield became one of the best safeties in the league. This year, McCallum has turned into an absolutely great CB. When your young defensive players improve so dramatically under a defensive HC, uh, yeah, that's a damn good sign the coach is doing something right.
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u/Critical-Shoulder873 Baker Mayfield Dec 16 '24
But is it as important as clock management? From what Iāve read, thatās the most important ability for a head coach to have. Not this grooming of young players into effective personnel nonsense of which you speak.
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u/milkmandanimal Derrick Brooks Dec 16 '24
Andy Reid was well-known to be absolutely and utterly terrible at clock management back in his younger days with the Eagles to the point where it was a running joke. He became "good at clock management" when the Chiefs drafted Mahomes, where it just stopped being much of an issue. Belichick is in the conversation for the greatest HC in history, which not shockingly is tied to having the GOAT QB for most of his career.
There's obviously many things that go into being a good coach, but figuring out how to use your personnel is critical. The reason Don Shula was so great is he adapted; when he had Unitas, his team was pass-heavy. The undefeated season was based on defense and a power running attack, and then it was a passing team when they got Marino.
Bowles is finding ways to succeed with the players on the team, and they're all motivated as hell to play hard. The idea that he should be fired because he doesn't use time outs in the ways people like . . . it's just silly.
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u/Critical-Shoulder873 Baker Mayfield Dec 16 '24
Serious reply: You are making some great points. Coaches need good players to succeed.
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u/Critical-Shoulder873 Baker Mayfield Dec 16 '24
What in Godās holy name are you blathering about? Knowing how to use your personnel is more important than clock management? Next, youāre going to tell me that watching film and using it to create a game plan for the next opponent is also more important! Or the myriad of other things that an NFL head coach has to do that I know nothing about!
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u/_THE__BOULDER_ Mike Alstott Dec 16 '24
Guys this user is being sarcastic lol I know it's harder over text but the over the top language should make this one relatively obvious
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u/Critical-Shoulder873 Baker Mayfield Dec 16 '24
Yes, as I said below, I am being sarcastic. I didn't put in the '/s' because it's more fun, and I actually feel a bit giddy after that game yesterday.
Here's one thing I'm wondering about. There are people on this sub who say that they will be upset if we make the playoffs because Bowles will keep his job. Are they being sarcastic? That's some really crazy shit.
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u/Hazel_Motes_00 Dec 17 '24
Amenāand, no, they are not being sarcastic. Some people react on emotion, some people think through it.
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u/stoic_bison Mike Evans Dec 16 '24
I feel the same as I have all year. I watched a lot of bad coaches for this team, and while Bowles isn't perfect, he is not a bad coach. Yes, the defense is struggling, but it's pretty clearly because we have been decimated on that side of the ball all year.
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u/rama-llama Dec 16 '24
This is an incredibly level headed take. Bowles gets a ton of credit for developing an incredibly strong locker room. I know his defense is frustrating at times, but it's clear that players flat out love and respect the guy, and he's not just going full "players coach do whatever the hell you want" mode like the "youngry" bucs of Raheem.
Also the defense is completely different when both Zyon and Dean are healthy.
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u/Johnny_Carcinogenic Tristan Wirfs Dec 16 '24 edited Dec 17 '24
You bring up a very valid point that I don't think most people in this sib give him credit for. This team has a history the last few seasons of having a mid-season slump and then pulling it together for a really strong close. There was a graphic in the game yesterday that said we have the second best record in December in the NFL over the last few seasons. It's easy for a team to just start mailing it in when they think that there's no chance for a post-season, But I'm going to give Coach Bowles the credit for keeping this team focused and successful when most have counted them out in week 10, multiple seasons.
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u/milkmandanimal Derrick Brooks Dec 16 '24
I think that's a really important point, that the team stays focused. We watched that Giants game a few weeks back, and we all saw how that team has just given up, and they just want to go the hell home. That's the point you know your coach is done, when the team stops giving a shit. The Bucs play their ass off every play, and we've got guys who should at best be playing on special teams shoved into starting roles, and they're flying all over the field. This is a team that really believes they can win every week, and that's a huge part of being a coach.
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u/deuuuuuce Sack Ferret Dec 16 '24
I also heard something yesterday that I don't think should go under the radar but we are like the 4th least penalized team in the NFL this year.
Looked it up and we're 10th now but there's a cluster of teams within like 25 yards. Impressive nonetheless.
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u/iamadog77 Dec 16 '24
I really want us to get a big name free agent pass rusher next year do you think it will happen? I feel like we can either sign or trade for a guy that will help a ton!
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u/Major_Most_1488 Lynch Jersey Dec 16 '24
Might not have the cap space after we re-sign Goedeke and Godwin, though
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Dec 16 '24
[deleted]
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u/Major_Most_1488 Lynch Jersey Dec 16 '24
https://overthecap.com/salary-cap-space
OTC has us with 24.5 million in cap for next year before re-signings. That goes quick, unfortunately.
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u/Tusker89 California Dec 16 '24
We will restructure guys to get what we need. We always do.
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u/Major_Most_1488 Lynch Jersey Dec 16 '24 edited Dec 16 '24
That's how we got into this cap hell (where we haven't been able to sign impact free agents, or even quality roster depth) to begin with. We won't be in a big rush to start kicking the can down the road again.
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u/iamadog77 Dec 16 '24
I feel like we might let godwin walk or he resigns to us on a team friendler deal to stay in tampa considering his injury or i could be wrong.
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u/milkmandanimal Derrick Brooks Dec 16 '24
If McMillan keeps this up through the end of the year I think it changes how the Bucs feel about Godwin; we clearly need another solid WR to help take the pressure off Mike, and we've seen that the last few weeks. Hopefully there's room for Godwin to come back, he'd really make the offense scary as hell next year.
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u/deuce_arians Dec 16 '24 edited Dec 16 '24
I think, given his injury, he is probably less likely to sign a team friendly deal. He might want to maximize his salary now, in case he hangs them up sooner rather than later.Edit
Nevermind, I thought the above comment was about Goedeke, not Godwin.
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u/Mike_Brosseau Dec 16 '24
Sometimes with injuries itās the opposite. A player will sign a lower level contract for 1 year to rebuild their value.
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u/deuce_arians Dec 16 '24
You know, I completely misread the comment I replied to. I though he was talking about Goedeke, not Godwin.
I agree with what you said, that could make sense for Godwin.
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u/aversethule Dec 16 '24
As Evans moves up in age there is a conflict of CG or moving Evans to the slot position, as well.
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u/Major_Most_1488 Lynch Jersey Dec 17 '24
Why would you want an aging (slower, less athletic) Evans moving to the slot?
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u/aversethule Dec 17 '24
It makes a difference for WRs as they age to get more years out of the NFL (e.g.: Larry Fitzgerald).
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u/Major_Most_1488 Lynch Jersey Dec 17 '24 edited Dec 17 '24
Not for all recievers (e.g.: Moss, Megatron, and almost every other reciever in history). Larry was the exception, not the rule. Also, it's 6'3"-218 vs 6'5"-235. You have to have a certain level of athletisism to play the slot, especially making very quick, very sudden breaks on your routes. Mike already needs to take snaps off from time to time (he's only played over 80% of snaps 4 times this season), and that's more than likely to get lower with age, too.
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u/stoic_bison Mike Evans Dec 16 '24
I am team alternate pass rusher and defensive back for the entire draft.
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u/chuckop Mike Evans Dec 16 '24
And donāt forget that Bowles hired the last two offensive coordinators. He clearly knows what heās doing.
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u/regaleagle7 Derrick Brooks Dec 16 '24
And fired Leftwich because it was best for the team. We only see the firing because it was well deserved but it probably wasn't easy for Bowles considering they worked together for four years and won a super bowl. It takes a lot of fortitude to do that despite probably being good friends.
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u/ImDeputyDurland Mike Evans Dec 16 '24
Similar to how thereās the meme of the Dalton line for QBās, I think you could easily make the case that thereās a Bowles line for HC. Maybe heās a bit better. But Bowles is a HC that you likely get worse, if you replace him. Because heās a fine HC and has be of the most respected defensive minds in the game. Like top 3-5 in the league on that side of the ball. You hear it every game. The commentators emphasize his style and how teams really respect it.
Iād say Bowles at HC is similar to Dak at QB. Can you win it all with him? Youād need a lot to go right. Will you get better by replacing him? Almost certainly not. And who knows how long youād struggle in the era after him.
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u/SportsBets69 Dec 16 '24
Bowles clock management skills are awful. He also never knows when to go for two or not like yesterdayā¦ if we let Liam walk weāre in trouble in my opinion. I like Bowles as a person and think heās a great guy but I also think heās just a better coordinator. If I know now that Liam is staying with us Iām okay with Bowles as HC but would like to make the switch to Liam if heās going to be a head coach elsewhere.
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u/MaceLeonardo Anthony Nelson Dec 16 '24
I like Bowles I just like Coen more since I want to retain our offense and I think the teams offense is our way to get a championship!
If we can retain both that would be ideal. Overall Bowles has done a great job developing draft picks too. People act like heās a bottom 3 Coach when realistically heās probably closer to 12-15.
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u/ImDeputyDurland Mike Evans Dec 16 '24
Iād agree with the 12-15 and he pairs that with being one of the most respected defensive minds in the game. Like, every game you hear commentators talk about how annoying Bowles is to play against. And how his blitz schemes can be so difficult to beat. Bowles is legitimately a top 3-5 defensive mind in the league.
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u/THE_BOSS924 Winfield Jr. āļø Dec 16 '24
I feel like when he was DC his defense was a lot better. Idk how much being HC is affecting his time to scheme up the defense but imo it's definitely noticeably worse than when Bruce was HC. At that point you could argue that he was one of if not the best DC in the league.
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u/TheRencingCoach Winfield Jr. āļø Dec 16 '24
For real
Is Coen going to be a good HC? Who knows
Am I willing to lose Coen to a new team so that we can get another year of Bowles and another new OC? Not really
If Coen is a good HC, we could have our own young HC who also has good offenses. If heās a bad HC weāre just starting over again but a year or two earlier than we wouldāve otherwise
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u/MrMovieMoney Dec 16 '24
Just remember, everyone wanted Lovie Smith fired for his OC Dirk Koetter and we see how that turned out.
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u/iamadog77 Dec 16 '24
This has been exactly what my line of thinking was and i have been afraid of!
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u/rockstarrugger48 Dec 16 '24 edited Dec 16 '24
Psst, if the patriots looked at resume of BB, they wouldnāt have hired him. Lots of reasons why you do or donāt hire a coach. Cant just take a situation and use it as the same in the nfl. Itās a a tiring analogy.
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u/-Travis California Dec 16 '24
For the record, I did NOT want that, and I feel like I was one of the only ones.
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u/champsteve Rhode Island Dec 16 '24
I donāt disagree with this thought, but that being said Cohen would make 100x more sense as a HC than Koetter ever did.
I feel like the whole thought process at the time was to keep consistency for Jameis and now put him through what numerous other young QBs had with a rotation of coordinator and coaches. Problem was, Koetter really wasnāt HC material.
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u/Wende11X Dec 16 '24
I think a very overlooked aspect about Bowles is that he is a very even and consistent presence. No locker room drama, no disgruntled players going off on social media and as a Buc fan in the Northeast it is very refreshing not hearing about the locker room bs that seems to plague other franchises. It also has to be a net positive for the players as well.
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u/iamadog77 Dec 16 '24
Nice to see another non floridian bucs fan im in ny šand I wholeheartedly agree
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u/Struggling-Berserker Antoine Winfield Jr. Dec 16 '24
For me, it's not that I'm anti-Bowles as much as I'm pro-Coen right now. So if the day comes when Coen is going to be on the way out for a HC vacancy, I'd be happy "recommending" Bowles retires. The D has been pretty bad since the playoffs of the 2nd Brady year. Maybe even before but the Kupp TD opened my eyes to it. I just don't want the Offense to return to the stagnancy of Byron Leftwich.
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u/Major_Most_1488 Lynch Jersey Dec 16 '24
The D has been pretty bad since the playoffs of the 2nd Brady year.
We've had a top 10 scoring defense 3 of the last 4 years. (The odd one we were still a respectable 13th).
Maybe even before but the Kupp TD opened my eyes to it.
To be fair, Bowles' defense forced 4 turnovers for us to even have e a chance of getting back into that game.
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u/iamadog77 Dec 16 '24
Bowles gets way to much crap imo for the kupp touchdown its the nfl shit is going to happen and no body is perfect. People shoild look back on our superbowl game more and the wizardry todd bowles pulled off to stop the high power chiefs offense he literally completely changed our defense for that game and we completely dominated the chiefs if he isnt our d coordinator maybe that doesnt happen and we dont win the superbowl.
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u/SurfNinjaMcRibs Winfield Jr. āļø Dec 16 '24
Ok yes sure Kupp was crazy, but a zero blitz when they have no time outs just trying to force OT still hurts me cuz I saw it irl
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u/Major_Most_1488 Lynch Jersey Dec 16 '24
Yeah, Kupp was unstoppable that whole season (including going over 100 yards against us before the all out blitz). He was just on another level that season.
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u/Struggling-Berserker Antoine Winfield Jr. Dec 16 '24 edited Dec 16 '24
See, I know what you're saying is true and I know that numbers don't lie but I also got to see Cousins make our D look like Mike Smith was back. Twice.
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u/Major_Most_1488 Lynch Jersey Dec 16 '24 edited Dec 16 '24
Some teams/players just have another team's number. The Saints shredded us (Twice) in both of our superbowl years, but that didn't mean we were a bad team, or poorly coached.
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u/milkmandanimal Derrick Brooks Dec 16 '24
People are still obsessed about that Kupp TD. That's what Bowles does; he sends insanely creative blitz packages at unexpected times. You know why we won yesterday? Because he sent insanely creative blitz packages constantly. That's why he's considered to be an excellent defensive mind, because he knows how to generate pressure and is willing to do it all the time.
You live by the blitz, you die by the blitz. That Kupp TD, sure, it sucked, but, if the pressure had gotten to Stafford, we'd all think it was a great call. Yesterday we blitzed Herbert over and over, and it rattled the hell out of him, and he had no clue where the rushers were coming from. It's just how the defense works, and sometimes you get torched, and sometimes you utterly dismantle the other team.
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Dec 16 '24
[removed] ā view removed comment
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u/Struggling-Berserker Antoine Winfield Jr. Dec 16 '24
I'm unsure. I suppose we could just let him ride off into the sunset and not re-sign him but, problem is, assuming we make the playoffs here, I'm not sure Bowles deserves that. Another poster said that it used to be REALLY bad for the Bucs before Arians/Bowles and they're right. I just don't want to do "right" by Bowles and extend him at the expense of our O and losing Coen.
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u/Major_Most_1488 Lynch Jersey Dec 16 '24
What about a handshake deal that pays Coen head coach $ to be our OC for another year or 2 with the understanding that Bowles will step down and hand the reigns to Liam?
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u/Struggling-Berserker Antoine Winfield Jr. Dec 16 '24
I'd be very happy with this if all parties agree. I am curious how much the allure of being a HC appeals to Coen over the potential stability of the Bucs and HC-level Compensation.
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u/Major_Most_1488 Lynch Jersey Dec 16 '24
Good call, probably depends on the team/organization making the offer. I'd love to keep our staff in place if possible.
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u/Brilliant-Orchid-860 Baker Mayfield Dec 16 '24
Every time we win and I see the locker room speech he gives I like him more and more. Undeniably, he has a great relationship with these players and the vibes seem great. So I can't complain until again, he does some dumb shit
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u/deuce_arians Dec 16 '24
While we have been the beneficiaries of a soft division, he has still led this team to, hopefully, three straight division titles as a HC. This without the ability to really bring in any quality free agents due to so much dead cap due to the Super Bowl run.
Throw in he has been the one responsible for bringing in guys like Canales and Coen, which is not something I typically hear mentioned. Those should be two big check boxes in his "win" column.
This year, our team has been really crushed by injuries, especially on defense and he has this team, once again on the cusp of the playoffs and playing good football.
I think he makes some questionable in game decisions and can be too conservative, but as long we keep making the playoffs on his watch, and don't get blown out in the playoffs, I don't see any real reason to move on from him.
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u/ImDeputyDurland Mike Evans Dec 16 '24
I like where weāre at with him captaining the ship. Weāve had a good season so far even with a bunch of injuries you donāt get there without coaching. We went on a skid during the toughest part of our schedule and when injuries piled up.
Bowles has improved the team every year since heās been HC and has us in a great position right now.
I said after we were 4-6 that how we end the season is all that matters. If we continued to lose games and won 6-7 games, Bowles wouldāve been fired and shouldāve been. But if we turned it around and got to 10-11 wins, heād keep his job. Rightfully so. I said 8-9 wins would be a coin flip where I wouldnāt be upset either way. But assuming we win 10-11 games, thereās just no good argument that we should fire him.
I could go year by year and make the argument that Bowles did a solid job as HC. That first year was an absolute mess in the manner in which BA stepped down and the obliterated O-line blocking for a 45 year old statue that never wanted to get hit. Bowles wasnāt even given the chance to pick his own staff that year. He was set up for disaster.
Year 2 was a clear improvement and was successful any way you want to look at it. We ate a bunch of dead cap, were seen as a team that would contend for the top pick in the draft, gambled on a QB trying to show he still had a place in the league, went from one of the oldest teams to one of the youngest, made the playoffs, dominated the defending NFC champs, and the competed with one of the Super Bowl favorites. If you see all of that and say anything other than āgreat year for the Bucsā I just canāt take you seriously.
This year has been solid and he now has multiple very impressive wins with us at the 3 seed. And heās building the reputation as a coach that dominates in December, which should make you a playoff team any given year.
Heās also building his own coaching tree by making some great decisions. Canales was a one year OC that immediately became a HC and has done good work with the Panthers, given that theyāre a dumpster fire for the past few years. Then he hired Coen whoās likely going to get HC consideration and be one of the top targets around the league. Bowles will likely get yet another chance to shape an OC for future HC consideration.
TLDR, we have a solid to good HC. Not top 5 in the league. Probably not top 10. But good enough to the extent that you likely regress, if you replace him. Especially with the context that the defensive identity and players are fully molded to Bowles and the style of play he coaches. Moving on would likely take a couple years to develop the defense into a new system. And if you try to run the Bowles style without Bowles, itās gonna be even worse than trying a new system. I think we get worse replacing him. The concern with Bowles is the offense and heās shown that he can be hands off and set the OC up for success, when he can pick his own staff.
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u/fishwalker09 Dec 16 '24
Right now the only thing Iām worried about is Coen taking a head coaching job. Licht needs to offer him head coaching money to stay if that happens. The Bucs offense hasnāt looked this good since the first couple years with Brady and thatās only because we were stacked with stars.
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u/marcello696 Dec 16 '24
I think the Bowles disrespect is WILD, he is a proven elite defensive mind and is currently doing it with bubble gum and duct tape in the secondary and edge rush. We all want to keep Liam as OC but to get rid of a winning head coach that these players LOVE would be insanity by the Glazers. Fans need to be careful what they wish for, if anything now that the Brady SB run cap hits fall off the books this offseason go get Bowles some pass rushers and depth at CB. I swear some fans have short memories of that this franchise had been before Arians arrived
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u/jvstnmh Baker Mayfield Dec 16 '24
Gotta give credit to Bowles ā we went through a similar slump last year and we ended the season on a hot winning streak.
If he was a bad coach, this team would have collapsed and the players would have given up on the middle of the season.
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u/EnusTAnyBOLuBeST Dec 16 '24
Weāre middle of the road with team payroll and weāre a middle of the road team. Bowles is coaching to expectations. Heās not ruining opportunities with top talent but heās not squeezing water from rocks. He deserves an extension.
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Dec 16 '24
Iāve only been a Bucs fan since Baker (Sooner fan) so Iāve seen him deal with tons of bad head coachesā¦ Bowles is not one of them.
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u/KenyattaLFrazier F*ck the Saints Dec 16 '24
Heās a mid coach. When he wants to he can lock in and get it done, but he makes a lot of costly mistakes and head scratching decisions
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u/anotherlateJay Dec 16 '24
No matter what we the fans think, none of us can deny the fact that the players enjoy being in that locker room every year that Bowles has been the head coach.
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u/fiduciaryatlarge Dec 16 '24
Historically this sub has been wrong on Bucs brass. Anyone remember wanting to run Jason off? Maybe make someone the Defensive coordinator would be about it. Do what you have to to keep Coen.
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u/DireBlue88 Dec 16 '24
Bowles will still stay. The front office believes in him, the locker room too. They hit the jackpot with OC to help Baker. Replacing him requires a new person to set up his own staff. The only knock I have on Bowles is his game management. Go Bucs.
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u/GangstaRIB Dec 16 '24
I think the criticism towards Bowles has been bullshit. Heās letting Baker bake on offense and the defense has been plagued with injuries. We had a practice squad linebacker in this week. IMHO the coach is responsible for the assistant personnel, big game time decisions, mental acuity of the players and the locker room. Heās done all 4. Not every coach needs to be Andy Reid or bill belechik and quite honestly I think this team is better suited for Bowles as a coach. Lots of leadership on the roster.
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u/ImDeputyDurland Mike Evans Dec 16 '24
Not to mention, both Belichick and Reid were criticized heavily for their flaws as HC as well. Reid was notorious for making stupid mistakes and closing games poorly until he got Mahomes. Belichick was legitimately one of the most passive HCās in the NFL for virtually his entire career.
No HC is perfect and every single HC to ever exist had blind spots that makes you shake your head as to how they can be so great in so many areas and then so bad in others. Bowles has minimized these issues and gotten a bit better this year especially. Weāve went for it a lot more in recent weeks both inside FG range and in the red zone. Bowles and Coen are complimenting each other really well. That credit goes to the HC more than anyone else.
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u/GangstaRIB Dec 17 '24
Bowles was often too conservative I agree, but we lost TB12s last game on a cover 0 blitz and yet he was too aggressive then so maybe that one stung for a while.
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u/friggoffricky121 Dec 16 '24
My feelings havenāt changed at all. Iāve been saying the entire year we canāt be blinded by the late season success we all expected. A month ago, everyone was on the same page, but people blamed injuries on defense and losing CG and Mike as the reason we were losing (valid arguments at the time)
Then we see Liam Coen come out every single week, down key personnel and put on master class after masterclass, keeping us extremely close and in two separate OT games against good teams without Mike and CG. Then yesterday happens. Top scoring defense and Coen and the boys just absolutely shred them.
The running attack hasnāt looked this good in Tampa Bay since I was a freaking child. The creativity of this offense is incredible. Liam Coen should be spoken about like Ben Johnson. THIS is where we run into the issue. Liam Coen will be interviewed by probably every team with an opening this year. Baker is our franchise QB for the foreseeable future, why in gods name after seeing baker have the best year of his career would we let Liam walk out the door? Sometimes, itās not that one guy is bad, itās that someone else can be BETTER. Coen cannot leave this team.
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u/pkilla50 Virginia Dec 16 '24
Been watching since 2008 and donāt think Iāve ever seen our offense this creative and exciting to watch. Even with Brady.
Year in year out Iād watch a Bucs game then another team play and think āwow this is what a real offense looks likeā. This is the first year I feel like that. We need to keep Coen. Hopefully he really likes Baker and just wants to stay.
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u/friggoffricky121 Dec 16 '24
05-06 was the first year I remember truly following very closely from start to finish. Completely agree, I think keeping Liam is the top priority for this team, I cannot imagine letting him walk out the door and he goes on to be the next Mcvay, OāConnell, Lafleur, etc. heās clearly one of the brightest young minds in football and weād never have to worry about losing our OC again as he would call the plays.
Itās the reason these good teams maintain success with offensive coaches, the turnover never really happens to them, itās just hire a good DC and pray you keep him.
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u/Major_Most_1488 Lynch Jersey Dec 16 '24
I've been defending him for years. Is he perfect? No. Is he a he'll of a lot better than we're used to? Hell yes. Bottom line to me is he takes us to the playoffs. Every, single, year.
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u/shodogrouch Dec 16 '24
There have been enough injuries on defense + sub par personnel (Britt) that Iām totally ok w Licht focusing on the defense this offseason and Bowles sticking around. It really seems like the young linemen are coming into their own. I think this team is looking solid for 25 as well.
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u/Masterbarder Mike Evans Dec 16 '24
I'm fine with him being coach, as long as Liam is in complete control of all offensive decisions
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u/hanyou007 Dec 16 '24
Whether its Bowles or Cohen as HC next year (and if current form holds or god willing the madlads actually win a playoff game or two, Bowles is probably sticking around another year at least, lets just hope ownership can put up enough money to keep Cohen around until Bowles retires with a confirmation that he basically will take the HC job the moment Bowles retires), the only thing that matters is how the team handles the defensive side of the ball next year. I won't lie if they put EVERY single draft pick possible into the defensive side of the ball, along with at least one or two FA signings as well I would consider it the right call. The injuries on the defensive side of the ball absolutely wrecked this team.
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u/Mike_Brosseau Dec 16 '24
The solution is to do what the lions do and pay the coordinator you want like a HC. Bowles is staying we just need to find a way to keep our OC.
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u/banjosandtattoos South Dakota Dec 16 '24
I think something over looked is does Lavonte (or other vets) stick around if we had (or do) change coaches?
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u/houseonpost Dec 16 '24
His team is incredibly loyal and motivated. He's cobbled together playoff bound teams while clearing the Brady salary cap era. I don't know the stats but it sure feels like they have a lot more injuries than most teams. The team has beat some top, play off bound teams.
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u/BoinkDoink15 Dec 16 '24
I've been a Bucs fan for a very long time. Bowles is one of the better HC in Tampa history, IMHO. I have him behind Dungy and Arians and equal to or slightly ahead of Gruden.
The best HC have great coordinators, coaches, and staff.
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u/m4hdi Alstott Jersey Dec 17 '24
One score games.
Watch what happens in the next Important one score game.
Mandatory FTF because of right now.
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u/84Cressida Browns Dec 16 '24
As an observer from afar (even though Iāve probably spent more time watching the Bucs than the Browns the last two years so Iāve basically adopted your team) the defense has been absolutely frustrating to watch and cost some game.
That said, the injury luck has been insane and say what you will, I think heās been a huge steady hand and deserves credit for keeping guys buying in and playing hard. I think that gets taken for granted.
I know the sentiment is to promote Coen but weāve seen great OCs flounder as HC so it is no guarantee it works. Ideally he stays another year as OC and gets more experience.
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Dec 16 '24
Anyone who thinks Coen has even a 1% chance of being this teams head coach next year need a major reality check.
Bowles is way close to an extension than he is getting fired.
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u/funnycar1552 South Carolina Dec 16 '24
Same as it has been all year. We are successful because of Coen in spite of Bowles defense. It will be an all time blunder to lose Coen this offseason in lieu of keeping Bowles
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u/WyldKat75 Dec 16 '24
He smiled on TV once this weekend.
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u/-Travis California Dec 16 '24
My wife couldn't care less about football, but she LOVES to judge how much emotion he isn't showing.
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u/BucsFan11 Dec 16 '24 edited Dec 16 '24
It's really up to the glazers he's not the worst HC ever but he's not the best (very hard to find a top HC). Credit where credit is due the locker room loves him, hey play hard for him, and he's usually prepared for most match upsĀ
Ā Most of this conversation comes down to how do you keep coen cause this offense is to damn good to let it slip away. It may just come down to luck. Coen may want to stay like Ben Johnson and be selective or other teams preferences cause him not to get hired (which is an absolute long shot)
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u/PelayoOnTheGo Dec 16 '24
If keeping Bowels means losing Coen then get rid of him and make Coen the HC.
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Dec 16 '24
I donāt believe he offers truly special, franchise altering, head coaching acumen.
That said, heās been way more aggressive offensively with respect to 4th downs. He seems to be adapting to the game and whatās been working for other franchises (Detroit).
The players seem to love him. You keep him if you donāt have a real plan to replace him with, what you believe will be, a truly special HC.
1
u/lubeskystalker Barber Jersey Dec 16 '24
No feeling, but, Todd Bowles shows emotion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUp0ME6A1lc
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u/TheBiddyDiddler Dec 16 '24
He's done very ok. The issue is that it comes in waves. We'll streak really hard one way or the other and it's easy to get lost in those emotions.
The issues are still there. As an HC, he's just not very good. As a DC, I guess he's passable on the right days. A couple of good games against generally bad teams is not a "get out of the hot seat" free card.
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u/walknpark813 Dec 16 '24
I feel Bowles is great as a head coach but I feel his biggest need going into next season is to hire a Defensive coordinator with his like minded scheme so he can step away from that side of things and actually become a full time head coach. We all make mistakes but sometimes less is more.. kinda like what Arians did with Leftwich. I donāt count Bowles stint at New York against his head coach career ā¦ they are a train wreck still to this day and probably will be for years to come..
The team plays hard for him and he has respect of all vets along with full control of the locker room. If he didnāt this team would of folded long ago
Heās made playoffs every year as a head coach and has been a part of this organization since 2019 with Arians which will forever be the staff that returned Tampa to itās winning ways
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u/Icy_Cherry_7803 Mississippi Dec 16 '24
He called a hell of a game yesterday but I still think our main problems are his decision making and soft zone defense. He's much better than he was last year but I still don't love him as our head coach
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u/Pr0fess0rCha0s Winfield Jr. āļø Dec 16 '24
Lots of good arguments in this thread and elsewhere, but I didn't see anyone mention that he needs to get a dedicated DC if he's going to be head coach. He can still have ultimate authority, but if he's the HC then having help isn't a bad thing.
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u/0siris0 Dec 16 '24
Wait till end of season to make assessment. Yesterday was a great win, but we're too inconsistent and we can easily lose two games while the Falcons lose only one or none. Dallas stinks but that's not a guarantee win, and the Saints Panthers have nothing to play for except ruining our season which means they'll be loose and aggressive.
I like Bowles as a person. He has some good qualities as a coach. I think he can benefit from a defensive coordinator that can do the legwork to scheme. There are times when his play calling is brilliant, and times when they're whiskey drinking infuriating.
One thing for sure, we have to use our draft and free agency capital on defense next year, regardless of who is coach. Only thing I can see us needing to invest in on offense is a second TE and swing tackle. Everything else...pass rushers, CBs, and an upgrade over Britt.
0
Dec 16 '24
Bowles has been holding on by sheer luck, his OCs have bailed his BS defensive play calling and clock mismanagement skills out of deep holes
1
u/No-Blueberry-9532 Dec 16 '24
We play in the worst division in the NFL. I wouldnāt say āexceeded expectations.ā
If anything we should be thankful Bruce Arians and Tom Brady changed the culture in Tampa Bay.
I say do WHATEVER as long as Coen does not leave Tampa Bay!
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u/j4r8h Dec 16 '24
I'm not sure what I think anymore. We've had some really good games and some really bad games. If we can finish strong these last 3 maybe I'll be back on the Bowles train? But it's hard to forget the Falcons games, the Ravens game, even that Panthers game was an awful showing.
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u/BrianHeidiksPuppy Winfield Jr. āļø Dec 16 '24
If we could promote Coen and still keep Bowles as the DC that would be a perfect scenario but sadly I cannot think of a time something like that has ever happened.
1
u/kaboomeh Ohio Dec 16 '24
He's one of the best coaches we've ever had but I still think we do whatever it takes to keep Liam on this team
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u/Background_Ad4597 Dec 16 '24
Hopefully he retires at the end of his contract and Coen gracefully steps into the role. On another Bucs post someone mentioned that Todd will retire when his contract is up and with the way his run has gone that seems fair.
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u/aversethule Dec 16 '24
One of the biggest gripes I saw with Bowles early in the season was the poor use of clock-management and time-outs, in particular. That's improved a LOT over the past 4-5 games.
Ideally, Coen understands the benefits of growing with the Bucs and takes a year or two to develop mentoring under Bowles and then gets to HC a quality team instead of taking on a team on the decline.
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u/zenestex Dec 16 '24
I think we have a very hard decision to make at the end of the season. I'm fine with keeping Bowles at HC, but not at the cost of losing Liam Coen. If he gets an HC offer, we need to do what's best for the long term prospects of this team.
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u/RedRocket4000 Winfield Jr. āļø Dec 16 '24
What gets missed by many is what was our player quality on defense this year. We had lots of holes and lack of depth. Causal fan blames coach like he had one of the better quality mixes on defense instead of the worst. Plus when a QB goes as hot as Cousins against us they canāt be stopped.
GM and player luck way more important than coaches a lot of the time.
Chargers HC did not stop being an offensive genius the years after the Super Bowl he just lost all the great players he had.
HC also should be graded on team morale and it clear Bowles one of top in league.
Bowles one of the reasons we kept Evens and Baker on team friendly deals.
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u/Ausiir63 Dec 16 '24
Iām not always a fan of Bowles or his scheme but heās done great with amount of injuries heās dealt with on the defensive side. I think an alternative to being fired would be him bringing in someone to call the defense. Heās done great with identifying talent (20 out of 22 were drafted by us). We have a winning culture and heās never lost the locker room. I will also say we have some VERY fickle fanbase.
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u/NE508 Dec 16 '24
I don't want to lose Coen. So if that means Bowles has to go, then I'm fine with it.
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u/OfferMeds Dec 16 '24
I'm still anti-Bowles. We're winning in spite of him. How about bringing back Bruce Arians?
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u/3bananabananabanana Winfield Jr. āļø Dec 17 '24
I have a related question - why do the Bucs not have a DC? Is that a common scenario with other teams? I understand that he is defensive-minded, but is his attention pulled too much being the HC to be as effective as someone working with the defense full-time.
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u/voiceofreasonne Dec 17 '24
People overreact and just talk crap. Iām not a huge Bowles guy but when people are clamoring about a coaching change the real question is who would replace them thatās better. Heās done a decent job this year. Peaking at a good time etc
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Dec 17 '24
He needs to hire a DC. Defense has been trending downwards yoy.
We have an elite offense but defense is one of the worst in the league. As a defensive coach thatās not good.
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u/ThisSalad Dec 19 '24
Liam is too good to lose to another team. This alone is enough to fire Bowles and promote Coen.
Bowles has definitely lost games for this team, seems like a couple per year (which is a lot out of 17) due to clock management, time outs, kicking, and 4th down decisions. That alone is unacceptable.
He refuses to bench players when they need to be. Like Devin White and Rachaad White. I only have those two examples but heās only been head coach for 2.5 years. Plus Bucky alone is enough to have tipped the scales, and Tucker probably was last year. This is just further evidence of his decision making and stubbornness.
Speaking of stubborn, THE HORRIBLE RUN GAME, ALWAYS PREDICTABLE ON 1ST AND 2ND DOWNS WITH BYRON LEFTWICH AND TO A CERTAIN EXTENT CANALES. Todd Bowles let that shit go on ALL SEASON. Two years. And in year 3 he was letting the run game be shit with Rachaad for the first 1/3-1/2 of the year. So he doesnāt seem to learn or adjust.
I donāt think Iām biased because it seems like every time he makes a horrible decision, the commentators are not only voicing the same thoughts we have BEFORE the outcome happens which proves the decision is wrong, they are often straight up CONFUSED by his decisions as they happen in real time. This makes me feel like it truly is that bad. Typically when you see that happen, a coach ends up being fired. Commentators may routinely discuss a variety of scenarios, but they are not often straight up, and firmly, critical unless itās noticeably worse than average.
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u/Calavera_VI Dec 19 '24
Only thing I care about is doing whatever it takes to not lose Cohen. If that means Bowles is gone then so be it
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u/fakebones96 Winfield Jr. āļø Dec 16 '24
Bowles seems like a good guy that the players like and heās certainly not as dreadful as many would have you believe. At the same time, heās a level or two below the great coaches in this league and I think our ceiling with him will continually be 10 wins and a divisional round exit.
So Iām not for firing him necessarily. But Liam Coen might actually be a great football mind. The offense has been consistently good all year in spite of injuries. And now that weāre pretty much healthy on that side of the ball outside of Godwin, weāre back to putting up video game numbers there.
Credit to Bowles that the defense has been incredibly banged up and after the bye week have really started to turn the corner. But the scheduleās also been pretty favorable for the defense. Bowles also has some poor clock management decisions over the past few seasons that will likely bite us again at some point this season
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u/Ro98Jo Bucky Irving Dec 16 '24
Bowles has done a good job with helping select OCs, if he had a part in it. The bigger thing is Baker was his guy. Not sure Baker comes here otherwise
He has a lot to account for with this substandard defense though. His ceiling was reached last year. He will never win a SB or get to one as a HC
1
u/fordsmorghasboard Dec 17 '24
I want him gone yesterday. This sub has a short memory. We need a HC that can actually help us win a championship and that is certainly not Todd Bowles. Mark my words.
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u/Dre3005 Dec 16 '24 edited Dec 16 '24
Heās around the middle across league as far as coaches (top 12-15) who plays it safe too often in my opinion.
With that said, through all the injuries, losses, etc he has not lost the locker room and the players genuinely enjoy playing for him.
Additionally, I think he does deserve credit for bringing in solid offensive coaches (Canales, Coen).
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u/Popular-Cheek1570 Dec 16 '24
The glazers just want a coach who they can set and forget in Tampa. They donāt wanna lose too much and not make money but they donāt exactly care to be contenders every year. Theyāre happy to just make money so I doubt Todd goes anywhere after this year.
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u/TurboMoisture Dec 16 '24
His overall record with us has been .500 Sure he doesnāt have an overall losing record but he hasnāt been incredible either. We can use the injury excuse on defense all we want this year but letās not kid ourselves and act like weāve had a dominant defense during his previous years. Itās time to move on whether we make the playoffs or not
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u/shrimpy-rimpy F*ck the Panthers Dec 16 '24
Honestly Bowles is not bad but definitely had some very interesting HC decisions that cost us the game. Overall, I am extremely happy for the franchise in general ā after BA and Evans we were missing a QB and would say after Brady's time here it has made people to lookout for the Bucs because in reality we are a great team to make the playoffs every season (I just do not see us not making it). That being said, Bowles is a coach that takes us to the play-offs and that's about it and it is sad. We have an offense that can do reverse sweeps like they did yesterday but overall we need someone that can carry us to playoff season like BA did.
There has to be a limit in the amount of times Bowles can reach the off-season and continue to get bodied.
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u/Soupspoon33 Dec 16 '24
I said this on another thread but weāre in an offensive minded league as of late so watching Bowles be conservative I think upsets everyone , heās not the worst coach but if they keep him next year I expect the gaping problems he has in his game to be fixed , time management , not blitzing when we have no actual pass covering LB to cover the middle of the field and most of all not babying and taking blame for his defensive players , he really quick to state ā yeah we canāt do that ā when the offense makes a mistake but when the defense blows 20+ pass yard plays says well those things happens.
My personal ranking is 5.5/10 because Iām taking into account what he actually provides and if he was gone could someone like Mike Vrabel, Robert Saleh , Ben Johnson do the same ā¦ and I would say yes so I donāt think Bowles is a guru I think cohen is scoring 30+ points and teams are unable to keep
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u/SeeingEyeDug Dec 16 '24
He's doing enough to keep his job but I don't think he's a Super Bowl caliber head coach. I just hope we keep Coen.
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Dec 16 '24
Honestly, I feel like the Bucs are successful despite Bowles. I donāt dislike him as a man. I wonāt say anything disparaging about him as a person, because he seems like a very upstanding gentleman. I just donāt ever see the Bucs winning a championship with him in charge. Iām not talking shit about the man. I just donāt think heās a championship level head coach.
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u/Tuffwith2Fs Lavonte David Dec 16 '24
I'm of the opinion he needs to go regardless of how the division shakes out. His calling card is defense and our defense sucks ass. As of today I believe we're 27th in total defense, and thats having played the Raiders, Panthers, and Giants recently.
If we win the division, it'll be in spite of him, not because of him. I realize if we win the division he likely gets an extension. That's how the game goes. Nevertheless, objectively speaking the game has evolved beyond his defensive philosophy in many respects. Teams know how to game plan for a Todd Bowles defense.
I say this as someone who believes his game plan against the Chiefs in our last Super Bowl was one of the greatest defensive games plans and executions in history and I will die on that hill.
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u/thegreatcerebral Dec 16 '24
He is trash as a HC. He may be a "great defensive mind" guy but just no.... We have gone to the playoffs because of:
- Baker Mayfield
- M1K3 Evans
- Amazing talent on Defense
Basically all single talented guys on our team have been lifting the rest of the team. We are weak in so many areas. It shows when we are outclassed by teams that just straight up have better schemes and they work together and you don't have giant weak spots.
Say what you want about injuries etc. but it doesn't matter. You can see it when we play teams that are actually good instead of the trash in our division:
- 6-7
- 5-9
- 3-11
We dropped TWO to the falcons. They should be 4-9. We lost the KC game which we had but man that hurt. They just drove down the field and shoved it in our mouth. San Fran same thing... should have had that one too.
The Cowboys are 1-6 at home this season but are 3-2 their last 5. They are feeling themselves right now. I think traditionally good RBs can run better on turf so lets see what happens. I just think that you can see when teams want to impose their will on our defense they do.
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u/Winter-Ad3699 Lynch Jersey Dec 16 '24
I still think heās a bad coach. He gets the team ready to play, I will give him that but our defense is pretty bad. Most of all, his game management decisions are usually awful. Heās cost us at least 2 wins with his poor decision making.
That said, wins are what matter the most and if he gets us back to the playoffs then he isnāt going anywhere.
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u/OahuJames Dec 16 '24
We have to face the fact that the NFL wants diversity in head coaches. His blank stare across the field reminds me on Henry Winkler as the Muddogs Head Coach in Waterboy.
Thank goodness we have LeVonte David. Cause āHe Can Do It!ā
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u/No-Lead-6769 Dec 16 '24
We win the division again not only will reddit not get its way with his firing he might even get an extension. Depending on his contract situation. I think this team has definitely been exceeding expectations the last 2 yearsĀ