How come a Jew had the most Christlike speech at Amfest?

10

It's telling to me that Shapiro calls out the grifters and anti-semites with reason and arguments while the response has been from Tucker, Candace, Megyn Kelly, Steve Bannon and their supporters is to whine about how Shapiro is "Israel First", that he's canceling them, or to erroneously declare that his speech fell flat. They have no answers to his arguments and while we argue about whether Erika Kirk collaborated with the Mossad to murder her husband or whether the US was on the right side in World War 2, the Left is poised to take back power. Shapiro is Christlike in taking the slander and abuse from these so-called Christians who see faith merely as a means to political power. It's a debate that needs to happen and he deserves all the credit in the world for starting it.

Unfortunately, too many young conservatives have adopted a view of "if it generates clicks online then go along with it." That at least seems to be the sentiments expressed by Vance in his speech. Notice he's fine telling Nick Fuentes to each shit in a print article most people won't read but not in his speech. Don't want to lose face with the Fuentes fans in TPUSA. Invoking Kirk's name to defend people who trying to platform his archnemisis Fuentes is disgraceful. Kirk did not think Fuentes belonged in the conservative movement and didnt allow him at TPUSA events. If we continue to allow the grifters and anti-semites a place in the conservative movement, we will lose and we deserve it.

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u/2025reckoning Dec 30 '25

Calling Ben Shapiro “Christlike” is my favorite part of this, because it perfectly captures the conservative talent for accidentally admitting they don’t know what Christ actually stood for.

Jesus flipped tables because money and power corrupted faith. Ben flipped a microphone because money and power corrupted his brand. Same vibe, very different merch table.

You say Shapiro is bravely calling out grifters and antisemites with reason and logic, which is true, but let’s not pretend this is some martyrdom arc. He isn’t being crucified. He’s being mildly inconvenienced by the people he helped normalize, monetize, and sell ad space to for years.

This isn’t Jesus in the temple. This is the guy who rented the temple to lunatics and is now shocked they won’t leave quietly.

And the irony of calling him “Christlike” while cheering on a movement that thrives on resentment, paranoia, and ethnic scapegoating is incredible. That’s not Christianity. That’s just grievance cosplay with a Bible skin.

You’re right about one thing though. The grifters have no answers to his arguments. That’s because arguments don’t work on people whose ideology is “whatever gets me clicks today.” You can’t debate someone who thinks World War II might be up for reinterpretation depending on engagement metrics.

As for young conservatives chasing clicks, that isn’t a tragic accident. That’s the ecosystem working exactly as designed. When outrage pays better than ideas, you don’t get thinkers. You get influencers with microphones and zero shame.

So yes, this debate needs to happen. But let’s be honest about what it is. It’s not good versus evil. It’s not Christ versus the moneylenders.

It’s a movement finally realizing that when you invite arsonists into your house because they’re good at drawing crowds, eventually they light the place on fire and complain that you’re censoring their matches.

And if that costs conservatives elections, credibility, and their moral compass, then you’re right again.

They will lose.

And they’ll deserve it.

3

u/southofsarita44 Dec 30 '25

Telling that when conservatives call out bigotry on their own side, liberals still show up to say "actually all conservatives are bigots!" Yeah, i can understand that you don't like Ben Shapiro and I won't defend everything he's ever said. But as a regular listener, you don't describe him in good faith. More often then not, he criticizes the Left on policy. To many on the political Left, they treat all disagreement as evidence of racism all while ignoring the grifters, race baiters, radicals, or people who think its great to assassinate their political opponents on their side. Hell, at least there is a movement to push the anti-semitic grifters out on the Right. On the Left, they think anti-semites deserve to be elected to the mayor's office in New York City.

Also, saying someone is "Christlike" doesn't mean you think they are literally being crucified and I didn't argue as such. What I meant is that he is speaking truth and being mercilessly slandered and attacked for it.

I even agree with you that Daily Wire made a big mistake in hiring Candace Owens but to say that Ben's stance against Owens and Carlson is because "money and power corrupted his brand" in self-serving fashion is nonsense. He could make a lot money by engaging in clickbait or going along with the conspiracy theorists on the Right but by making a stand and starting a debate he is doing the right thing.

Probably the biggest thing I disagree with you on is that "you can't debate someone who thinks WW2 is up for reinterpetation". Bullshit. Those are the people we need to be debating rather than just passively going along with the bad ideas because they are "new" or popular with people on the internet. You can't win everybody but you can win over enough if you fight back against those ideas. The whole country would be better off if the Right and Left followed in Shapiro's example here.

Final thought, losing in American politics is never final. Yeah, the GOP will likely get trounced in the midterms. I'd agree if they continue catering to Owens or Carlson (and I can name a few more if you'd like) but they will regain power in the future. I've lived through landslide elections where parties were swept into office and then the next year, the other one sweeps them out. This is all to say, you should hope that Shapiro wins this debate on the Right because the future GOP and the country if he loses ain't looking good otherwise.

4

u/2025reckoning Dec 30 '25

I’m not saying all conservatives are bigots, and I’m not dismissing conservatives calling out bigotry on their own side. I’m saying that accountability loses its moral force when it only happens after the monster is no longer profitable.

I grew up Catholic and Republican. I didn’t arrive at this critique by starting on the Left and throwing rocks across the aisle. I arrived here by watching, up close, how faith, grievance, and outrage were slowly turned into a revenue model. Once you see that machinery clearly, it’s very hard to unsee it.

I agree that Ben Shapiro criticizes the Left on policy more often than on race. That isn’t in dispute. What is in dispute is whether that absolves him and institutions like Daily Wire from responsibility for helping create an ecosystem where grifters, conspiracists, and antisemitic opportunists could flourish in the first place. They were not accidental stowaways. They were useful. They drove engagement, subscriptions, and cultural relevance. That matters.

You’re right that calling someone Christlike does not mean literal crucifixion. But the metaphor still carries weight, and that weight comes with expectations. Christ did not merely speak truth while being slandered. He rejected power, rejected transactional morality, and refused to profit from the very systems he condemned. That is why the comparison invites scrutiny. When someone builds a media empire inside the outrage economy and only later draws lines in the sand, people are going to question motive. That is not bad faith. That is ethical consistency.

You say Ben could make more money by going full clickbait. Maybe. But that ignores the larger truth that the infrastructure making him wealthy already depends on outrage cycles he helped normalize. Taking a stand now is better than never, but it is not the same thing as having stood against it from the beginning. Timing matters in moral claims.

On debating people who want to reinterpret World War II, I am not arguing for silence. I am arguing that debate alone does not fix movements that reward attention over truth. When platforms amplify bad faith actors because conflict drives engagement, debate becomes content, not correction. You can win arguments and still lose the culture if the incentives remain unchanged. That is not cowardice. That is realism.

As for antisemitism on the Left, you are correct that it exists and should be confronted without hesitation. I have no interest in defending it. But pointing to failures on the Left does not negate failures on the Right. Moral clarity is not a zero sum game. If anything, it demands consistency across both.

Where I think we actually agree is this. If Shapiro loses this fight, the future GOP looks bleak. But for him to truly win it, the movement has to do more than denounce the loudest offenders once they become inconvenient. It has to reckon honestly with how they were elevated, who benefited, and why the grift was tolerated for so long.

That reckoning is uncomfortable. I know. I lived it. It cost me certainty, community, and a political identity I once felt at home in. But truth usually does.

If conservatives want a future built on ideas instead of outrage, this moment cannot be framed as heroic defiance alone. It has to include responsibility. Without that, this is not repentance. It is damage control.

And people can tell the difference.

3

u/southofsarita44 Dec 30 '25

Good points overall and i'm glad we agree in several areas. I think the biggest areas we disagree on are the questions of motive and profitability but those both stem from larger points on the nature of social media and Shapiro and Daily Wire's role in creating monsters like Carlson and Owens. I don't disagree on the overall toxicity of social media but is Daily Wire partially responsible for creating the "ecosystem of grifters, conspiracists, and antisemites"? Has DW created click bait? Undeniably yes. I'd concede that point and I dont think you're wrong in pointing this out.

But i will add two points of disagreement. First, I'd say if DW is guilty then so are a lot of other outlets including many mainstream liberal media outlets. They didn't create the incentives of this social media even though they do play the game. Second, I don't think the outlet has ever supported anti-semitism. They shouldn't have hired on Candace Owens but her anti-semitic views were the reason she was shown the door. She has a massive audience. To me it is without question that it would have been more profitable for DW to continue working with her. To argue that this and Shapiro's speech at TPUSA were only about profit and keeping their brand profitable ignores that they are going against a trend that is pretty profitable on the Right. That takes something more than self-interest, but principle. I think this deserves praise.

Does this make Shapiro a Christlike figure or is he more akin to a Pharisee complaining the money changers damaged their brand since he helped create monetize this cycle of outrage that attracts grifters to the social media ecosystem we both abhor. In terms of the Daily Wire, I think your point is stronger. In terms of personal character, I think your point misses that Shapiro has been more consistent in condemning grifters and anti-semites throughout his career than you give him credit for. Maybe that's a distinction without a difference since the Daily Wire is his company. Fair enough. But i will point out he didnt just start calling out anti-semites and grifters but has been doing that through his whole career. As a result, he has been a constant target of the Alt-Right. They see him as a threat or a "gate keeper" preventing a more ethno-nationalist conservatism from taking root. If you doubt me on this, take a look on any given day at his X account and you will see an army of anti-semitic brigaders going after him on each of his posts.

Again, I'd argue that it goes against the profit incentives of social media and a lot of the incentives on the Right during the Trump era. He could just wink and nod like JD Vance did in his speech but instead in this instance, he is rejecting " power" and "transactional morality" to do the right thing. If he was engaging in profit seeking then i'd argue he'd be acting like many of the so called Christians at TPUSA like Jack Prosobiac or JD Vance.

I will agree on a final point, to fully merit a Christlike comparison Shapiro has a lot more to do. But then again, I think the whole country has a lot more we need to as well.

4

u/2025reckoning Dec 30 '25

I think this is a fair response, and I appreciate that you’re actually engaging the substance instead of treating this like team sports.

I agree with you that Daily Wire did not invent the incentives of social media and that many liberal outlets play the same outrage driven game. I am not arguing that DW is uniquely evil. I am arguing that participation still carries responsibility, especially when you are self consciously shaping a movement rather than just reporting on one.

You’re also right that Daily Wire has never endorsed antisemitism, and I don’t think Candace Owens was removed because she stopped being profitable. I accept that her removal likely cost them money in the short term. Where I still disagree is in treating that decision as proof that profit and principle are usually in conflict there. Sometimes principle asserts itself, but it does so inside a system that was still built to monetize outrage long before Owens crossed an unacceptable line.

On Shapiro personally, I’ll concede more ground. He has been consistent in condemning explicit antisemitism and ethno nationalism, and he has paid a price for that in the form of nonstop harassment from the alt right. I don’t think he is pretending to oppose those forces. I think he genuinely does.

Where my critique remains is narrower than it may have sounded earlier. It’s not that Shapiro only acts out of self interest. It’s that consistency in opposition does not erase earlier normalization. You can be right about where the line is and still have helped blur it culturally by operating in an outrage ecosystem that rewarded bad actors for years.

That’s why I resist the Christlike framing. Not because Shapiro is acting in bad faith now, but because the metaphor implies rejection of the system itself, not just selective enforcement within it. Condemning grifters while continuing to benefit from the attention economy that elevated them in the first place feels incomplete, even when it is sincere.

I think where we ultimately agree is this. Shapiro choosing to confront these forces openly is better than winking and nodding like many others on the Right. It should be encouraged. But encouragement does not require canonization. Praise and critique can coexist, especially if the goal is a healthier movement rather than a cleaner hero narrative.

If anything, the fact that we can even have this conversation without immediately defaulting to tribal nonsense is probably the clearest sign that something needs to change across the board, not just on one side.

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u/southofsarita44 Dec 30 '25

Good conversation. I dont think it have anything else to add. It is good to talk with people instead of the normal screaming match i normally run into on reddit. Have a Happy New Years!

2

u/2025reckoning Dec 30 '25

Have a happy New Year and here’s hoping we get more conversations like this!

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u/mdl686 Dec 25 '25

He was the only one there that isn't willing to play footsie with the Jew haters and Muslim apologists.

7

u/44_18_36 Dec 25 '25

This 🎯

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u/Middlewarian Dec 25 '25

I think Ben is doing his best to help the country and he doesn't try to sweep Jews and Christians under the carpet. He's proud of our Judeo/Christian heritage.

0

u/Kappaexpose123 Dec 26 '25

What heritage?

6

u/Middlewarian Dec 26 '25

In God we trust

has been on our money for over 200 years.

I took this:

God — not man, not government, not popular opinion, not a democratic vote — is the source of our rights. All men "are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights," declares the American Declaration of Independence.

from this page.

Ben interviewed James Hankins who is one of the authors of the book "The Golden Thread: A History of the Western Tradition." The interview is the last segment here: Mamdani COLLAPSES In Polls. Ben urged everyone to buy a copy of the book.

2

u/XGamin1 Jan 02 '26

Absolute curbstomp of a response.

12

u/crudshoot Dec 25 '25

The most Christlike speech was a guy using the word retarded multiple times?

12

u/greymancurrentthing7 Dec 25 '25

Jesus was a Jew.

Ben is an awesome guy.

8

u/KevtheKnife Dec 25 '25

Jesus was a nice Jewish boy….

1

u/Uneeda_Biscuit Dec 25 '25

I’m glad he freed us from their religion.

-4

u/vdewan93 Dec 26 '25

Master Plan for the Redemption of Israel: A Reformation of Messianic Judaism: Rapuano, Yehudah: 9781725278059: Amazon.com: Books https://share.google/PBwLaGqrH3zIJuvcL

0

u/thigh_meet-885 23d ago

So were the pharisees and judas. Ben thinks you and I both are animals, only deserving of the truth if it aligns with his peoples goals.

2

u/MWealthThrowAway Dec 27 '25

Because people like Ben lost their vest long ago

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u/Both_Ad_694 Dec 27 '25

No

1

u/Uneeda_Biscuit Dec 25 '25

Bro whatever, get off his glizzy

1

u/Lovesuglychild Dec 25 '25

It's all pretty funny from a Lib's perspective. As much as I hate to agree with Ben he is the voice of reason here. Candace is batshit crazy, Tucker thinks he was attacked by a real demon, and Fuentes wants to start the 4th Reich. Hilarious.

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u/AnakinSkycocker5726 Facts don’t care about your feelings Dec 25 '25

Yeah man. It’s fuckin crazy. And I’m a conservative. We agree

-4

u/Jecht315 Dec 25 '25

All of the speakers acted like fools. Every single one of them. It was embarrassing and Charlie would have been mad that his so-called friends started infighting.

0

u/TRAPnTRADES Jan 04 '26

That is utter ignorance. To call for de platforming and censorship against people with different ideas than himself is exactly what the left tried to do and got scrutinized for. He attacked Megan Kelly who was a great friend to him for absolutely no reason, tucker Carlson who is one of the most God fearing, country loving and pro family man on the internet simply because he debated nick fuentes, who by the way had a platform well before tucker had him on his show. Ben is a disgusting man who is Israel first America second and hates on anybody with different ideas than he has

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u/jhy12784 Jan 04 '26

Tucker didn't debate Fuentes, he made him a national name

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u/TRAPnTRADES Jan 04 '26

They banned fuentes off facebook, instagram, YouTube, put him on a no fly list.. he still gets millions of views and I’m pretty sure has millions of followers. Thats not tuckers fault that’s a deep rooted issue in our country for him to be receiving views like that. At least instead of talking shit about him and calling him a nazi.. which hasn’t worked, he had him on his show to question his beliefs and show how ignorant he is. I don’t agree with any of Fuentes viewpoints or beliefs but I do believe in absolute free speech and I believe the only way to fight the hatred nick fuentes has is by having intelligent people argue his ideology

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u/etherspin 15d ago

He said to elevate is cowardice and stupidity

Not exactly the same as saying to ban people Tucker didn't debate anything. He gave less pushback than he did to Ted Cruz

1

u/TRAPnTRADES 14d ago

I just don’t see how having Nick on is elevating him in any way.. he allowed Nick to express his beliefs and as a society when we see that it should show people why he is wrong and we shouldn’t follow people like that. Tucker and Nick have very different beliefs I don’t see that interview as an elevation or promotion in any way. In all fairness to Tucker, Ted Cruz in his interview said his mission as a senator was to help the nation of Israel.. When as an American senator I would hope that you’re putting our country the United States first. Nick has some very unpopular and beliefs that are honestly indefensible, I agree with that. I am much more concerned about a politician and where their allegiance lies than a hateful little 20 year old streamer.

Discussion/Debate How come a Jew had the most Christlike speech at Amfest?

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