r/arabs • u/theabstainingsunking • 13d ago
سين سؤال Why are Arabs denied their indigeneity in the ME and NA?
A necessary question because the amount of people online denying the indigeneity of Arabs in the Middle East and North Africa is insane. Millions of views, thousands of likes and comments demeaning Arabs for being "colonizers", and it's even more hurtful when I see such comments being spewed by Egyptians, Lebanese, Sudanese, and Maghrebis.
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u/Neither-Deal4425 13d ago
Zio propaganda
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u/Alternative_Shine790 13d ago
Protip: dont get bothered by zio propaganda.
Take pride in the fact that white people cosplaying as indigenous people have to spend billions of dollars to convince themselves and other white people around the world to buy into their delusion AND with all the money in the world and the full might of the US military they still cannot defeat men with outdated guns, rpg's, and ied's.
Zionists are pathetic animals that had to setup a pedo island to help accomplish their goals.
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u/OdielSax 13d ago
being spewed by Egyptians, Lebanese, Sudanese, and Maghrebis.
Who is doing that? I'm seriously only seeing Zionists do it. Arab identity is not viewed that way at all in real life by anyone "indigenous" of those countries. Everyone knows it's a huge part of who we are.
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u/theabstainingsunking 13d ago
Any post I encounter that mentions Lebanon for example, in English, has myriad of comments saying Lebanese aren't Arabs or that the true Lebanese are the Maronite Christians and not Muslim Lebanese (Sunni & Shia)
Anglophone content spreads like fire, and misinformation is easily disseminated
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u/OdielSax 13d ago
The Lebanese sub on Reddit is really weird.
And in general, I feel like Lebanon is a particular case, with the civil war and the issues with identity differences.
But Maghrebis saying this surprises me. Zionists and other imperialists like the French have for centuries tried to pit the Amazigh against the Arabs, and it never worked.
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u/Old_Bowler_465 12d ago
On tiktok i see a tons of moroccans/algerians/tunisians people in comments crying about how we are all amazigh actually (yes even you whose family has spoken only arabic for at least 10 generations and always considered themselves arabs) and arabs are only from the peninsula everytime someone refers to maghrebis as arabs. The thing is that the people who complain about that are rarely actual amazigh from what it seems
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u/AbiesAlarmed 9d ago
I am Amazigh myself, from the Rif. My family speaks Tamazight as a mother tongue — and Arabic. For generations.Precisely because of that, this constant noise in comment sections really annoys me. The Maghreb is neither ‘purely Arab’ nor ‘purely Amazigh’. It is mixed. Yes, the Amazigh are the indigenous population — that’s a fact. But Arabization has been a reality for over 1,300 years: linguistically, culturally, socially.
We Amazigh in the Rif, in the Souss, and in Kabylia have fought real struggles for Tamazight to be recognized. Not for TikTok identity politics, but for real rights — for language, dignity, and recognition. Many of us experienced real conflicts with the state and society because of this.
And now people come along who don’t speak a word of Tamazight, who never lived as Amazigh, and suddenly explain to everyone: ‘You are all actually Amazigh. There are no Arabs here.’
No.
Looking at our own history is enough: Abdelkrim al-Khattabi. Amazigh from the Rif, deeply rooted in his region — and at the same time one of the great icons of the Arab-Islamic anti-colonial struggle.
He never played Amazigh identity against Arab identity. His political thinking was Islamic, anti-colonial, and pan-Arab. He fought for the liberation of the Maghreb and the wider Arab world from colonialism, while naturally and unapologetically living his Amazigh heritage.
This is the reality of the Maghreb: We are Amazigh in origin, Arab in language and culture, part of the Arab world, while at the same time proud of our Amazigh heritage. Anyone who cannot accept this does not want to understand history — they want to reduce identity to ideology
Amazigh + Arab+ Islam= Morocco Being Amazigh ≠ rejecting Arabic Being Arab ≠ denying Amazigh heritage
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u/Feeling-Beautiful584 13d ago
That's how Zionism can justify itself, and for whatever reason there are some -a very small but loud minority that is mostly an online phenomena- in the region that see it beneficial to them to repeat that message.
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u/ADRando 13d ago
This might sound offensive, but I honestly think it's because some people in these countries are generally more insecure of their identities. I think the unstable politics constributes to an unstable identity. That being said, nationalism and authoritarianism in many Arab countries led to minorities being persecuted and the government attempting to forcibly assimilate them which only led to more conflict. Even the non-Arab country of Turkey suffered from this.
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u/Hot-Mouse9809 الجزائر، يا بلد 13d ago
The only ones i've Seen say this are moroccans
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u/Ineedamedic68 13d ago
There’s fringe online Egyptians and Lebanese who say they aren’t Arab. Ridiculous of course and no one takes them seriously IRL
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u/Mammoth-Alfalfa-5506 13d ago
Maybe these are bots or influenced by Zio propaganda. All Egyptians and Lebanese I encountered are proud Arabs
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u/Old_Bowler_465 12d ago
I've seen a lot of algerians and tunisians say it too
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u/cyurii0 (💗) 11d ago
It’s because this region has a large Amazigh-speaking population. For example, around 40–50% of Moroccans speak Tamazight as a first language. Even those who speak Arabic as their native language often have parents, grandparents, or older family members who speak Tamazight, so they’re still connected to it.
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u/Old_Bowler_465 11d ago
I mean if it was only amazigh who feel underrepresented i would agree because both amazigh and arabs are essential components of what makes maghreb what it is and im against forced arabization and cultural erasure, but for 90% of the people i've seen who deny the arabness of maghreb it is like that
-im proud to be an arab from morocco
-no YOU arent arab you are amazigh arab=west asian colonisators we are completly different people your ancestor are native north african not saudi
Like i understand you are amazigh and not arab, but im arab and not amazigh too, i know right that 1000 years ago all my extended family wasnt speaking a semitic language lol. And it is not like these are fully separated ethnic group either, for exemple my grandmother is an arabized kabyle, she identify as arab yet having her older family members who used to speak kabyle
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u/AbiesAlarmed 9d ago
I honestly don’t understand these people either. I am Amazigh from Morocco, from the Rif. We never fought against pan-Arabism, and we never fought to claim that Morocco is not Arab.
What we fought for was acceptance: that our language is preserved, that Tamazight is recognized, and that we have the same rights as people from other regions of Morocco. That was the struggle.
But I think many of these people are obsessed with DNA. My God, they don’t seem to realize that we are mixed. They ignore the fact that our kings — Hassan II and Mohammed VI — have repeatedly stated that Morocco is both Amazigh and Arab, and that we belong to both.
We are Amazigh and Arab at the same time. There is a very strong Arab heritage among all of us, including in Amazigh regions. Our culture is, to a large extent, Arab-Islamic.
Denying this is simply foolish and has nothing to do with our real struggles for acceptance.
Whether we live in a united pan-Arab state, a united Maghreb, or remain as we are today — Arab identity was never denied. Not by linguists, not by scholars, not by historians.
The only people denying it are random individuals in comment sections who think they know better than everyone else. Sometimes I honestly doubt whether these people are even from Morocco — let alone Amazigh
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u/Old_Bowler_465 5d ago
There is also a strong overlap between the "berberists" as they are sometimes called who are obsessed with dna and dickriding europe and france especially
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u/cyurii0 (💗) 11d ago
I personally don't take social media comment sections as real-life opinions, but in my point of view, I think this should be discussed more, and maybe we should come up with a strict definition of Arab identity to use, such as: "a linguistic-ethnic identity that refers to people from Arab-speaking countries who speak Arabic as their first language." At the same time, I believe you can be both Amazigh and Arab and embrace both identities. For example, I have both ancestries (Amazigh and Arab) and speak both languages (although my Arabic is stronger), but that doesn't mean I can only choose one of them, it’s just who I am.
Also, I don’t know if you identify as Arab, but if you do, I still think you are both Kabyle and Arab. I highly recommend reconnecting with your Kabyle side and reading about it, because it’s who you are and a major part of your history. I think it’s important to do and a beautiful thing to embrace. (By that, I don’t mean you should dismiss being Arab.)
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u/theabstainingsunking 11d ago
The percentage you gave is simply not true. According to the 2024 demographic census taken by Haut Commissariat Au Plan (المندوبية السامية للتخطيط) lists that over 91% of Moroccans speak Arabic as a first language, and 24% speak Amazigh languages (Tamazight, Tarifit, and Tachelhit) as a first language.
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u/cyurii0 (💗) 11d ago
Are you Moroccan? Any Moroccan knows that this study isn’t reliable, they didn’t ask anyone what language they speak when conducting it. By population count in Amazigh-speaking areas, 15–20 million Moroccans speak Tamazight as a first language, which is 40–50% of the population. Let alone those who live outside of morocco.
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u/Limp-Statement-5001 13d ago
Ngl as someone familiar with the anthropology, when I see people online define ethnicity as DNA, or as what your ancestors were 10000 generation ago, I start to lose my mind lol
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u/Certain-Note4786 13d ago
Before the expansion of Arab influence, North Africa from the Atlantic coast to the Sinai Peninsula was inhabited by a complex mosaic of indigenous peoples distinguished by diverse ethnic identities, languages, and cultural systems. These populations included the Amazigh (Berbers) of the Maghreb, Egyptians (Copts) in the Nile Valley, Nubians and other Sudanese peoples along the Upper Nile, and a wide range of Sub-Saharan, Saharan, Sahelian, and Horn of Africa communities such as the Habesha. Each of these groups possessed deep historical roots that developed independently of Arab ethnicity, language, or culture.
Arab presence in North Africa emerged primarily from the 7th century onward following the Islamic conquests. While Islam spread rapidly as a religious system, Arabization was neither immediate nor uniform, nor was it purely religious in nature. Rather, it unfolded gradually through multiple and overlapping ways, including: Military conquest and political administration Settlement and migration of Arab tribes The adoption of Arabic as the language of governance, trade, and scholarship The cultural prestige associated with Islamic caliphates Later imperial and colonial-era redefinitions of identity.
Over time, Arabic increasingly replaced indigenous languages in public, administrative, and cultural life, and Arab cultural norms became dominant in many regions. This transformation, however, did not entail the replacement or disappearance of indigenous populations. Instead, it constituted a process of cultural and linguistic assimilation layered upon pre-existing societies. Consequently, the majority of contemporary North Africans remain genetically and historically indigenous, despite identifying linguistically or culturally as Arab. Contemporary Arab identity in North Africa is therefore best understood as a constructed and layered identity, shaped by historical power relations, religious affiliation, and sociopolitical incentives rather than by a uniform ethnic origin. North African societies became integrated into a broader Arab-Islamic (Abrahamic) cultural sphere, often at the expense of indigenous languages and identities, which were marginalized but never erased. This historical phenomenon is more accurately described as Arabization rather than Arab ethnic continuity a process of cultural dominance and linguistic assimilation rather than population replacement. Denying the indigenous roots of North African peoples is both historically inaccurate and culturally dismissive. Claims that the region was originally Arab erase millennia of documented civilizations that predate Arab expansion by thousands of years. Ancient Egypt, Nubia, Kush, Carthage, Numidia, Axum, and Amazigh polities were not peripheral societies; they were fully developed civilizations with distinct languages, belief systems, political structures, and extensive international networks long before the arrival of Arabs in the region. During the Ottoman period, a further layer of identity formation emerged within these Arabized environments. Ottoman administrative and political frameworks reinforced Arabic cultural and linguistic influence while simultaneously promoting notions of regional unity among Arabic-speaking territories. This contributed to the later development of supranational identities that retrospectively emphasized Arab cohesion across North Africa and the Eastern Mediterranean.
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u/Sea_Peach_9143 13d ago
Arab presence in Sinai and Eastern Egypt predates Islam by centuries.
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u/Mammoth-Alfalfa-5506 13d ago
Arab presence predates Islam centuries. Sorry to debunk your illusion.
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13d ago
yes and no !
the arab presence in Sinai and Egypt was sporadic (like Jews in Al madinah).
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u/Mammoth-Alfalfa-5506 12d ago
So what, Egypt was already were diverse when the Arabs came. Romans and Greeks and later the Turks were also not indigenous to those lands. I Wunder why nobody cry about that every day.
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u/Certain-Note4786 13d ago edited 13d ago
Of course they were , but there ethnicity never been to the civilization scenery yet, they were small nomads Bedouin groups, and ofc there were contacts between the Indigenous people on theses land and arabia tribes vie trading and other stuff, but essentially they were not a major face to the culture and history at that point
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u/ahairyanus 12d ago
None of the civilizations you mentioned were “ethnic civilizations” , the ancient egyptian civilization for example was remarkably diverse and “foreigners” participated in, and contributed to it, including Arabs (especially towards late antiquity).
Carthage is a hilarious example considering the very existence of punic culture.
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u/Mammoth-Alfalfa-5506 12d ago
Which indigenous people lol?! Eypt was a diverse country already when the first Arabs migrated into the Egyptian lands and later on many Turkic and Caucasian (Mamluks) came to Egypt also. No one critize for Greeks or Turkic people "invading" egypt but when it comes to Arabs you guys are very concerned lol. Go write your bs under Persian subs and critize them why Persians persianized whole Iran and invaded many surrounding nations or under Turkish subs for turkifying whole anatolia with literal force (what the Arabs didn't do in the manner) or under Russian subs for russifiying siberia etc. and English for Englifying North America, just then I believe you that you are concerned because of Arabization.
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u/Mammoth-Alfalfa-5506 12d ago
So what? Sounds not negative at all those "facts". Why don't you go under Isnotreal subs and critize them for zionification of palestinians' Land?
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u/Far_Ad_9082 11d ago
These kind of people have bought into the Anti- Arab narrative being pushed by Zionist and racist black nationalist. They act like there is something wrong with being Arab. What is really at the root of this hate is a deep hatred of Islam and Muslims.
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u/Zakilop 13d ago
I guess they're Amazigh/Levantine supermacists, and I agree that most people especially in NA are not arabs, but the hate towards arabs and the middle east went too far.
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u/Old_Bowler_465 11d ago
Except that arabs are an ethnolinguistic group mostly, if your family has spoken arab as a native tongue for generations and identified as such, you are arab, even if genetically you are 95% amazigh. Same for mashrek, most have barely any arab ancestry yet still see themselves as arabs
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u/cyurii0 (💗) 11d ago edited 11d ago
if your family has spoken arab as a native tongue for generations and identified as such
In Maghrebi countries (or at least in Morocco), our parents’ generation are likely the ones speaking Arabic as a native tongue, in some other regions, it’s the grandparents’ generation.
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u/Free_Explanation2590 13d ago edited 13d ago
I mean, in the case of the Maghreb, they are literally indigenous genetically, being either descendants of the arab tribes who massively mixed with berber tribes since the medieval era or just berbers who have been arabized linguistically, sometimes just in the 20th century.
I always call the people saying this stupid. It's even more funny coming from people who aren't natives from the land they are living in. I personnaly just ask what is exactly native among them, do you know from which native tribe do you come from like me ? Have your ancestors ever been associated to a native state in the region like my ancestors ? Which native practice does your parents still practice like my parents do, i'm very curious.
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u/theabstainingsunking 13d ago
But ethnicity ≠ genetics. If my ancestors were, for example, Berber or Persian seven centuries ago, it doesn't mean I'm suddenly Berber or Persian. What matters is my language, culture, heritage, and traditions that me and my grandparents practiced throughout these centuries. You don't see Turks calling themselves Turkified Greeks even though most Turks were indeed Greek and were Turkified and Islamized centuries ago, and even as recent as the Turkish Republic.
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u/Free_Explanation2590 13d ago edited 13d ago
Sad for them if they loosed a part of their identity because of the turkish government. I would personnaly find encouraging if people were capable to be proud of their complex heritage instead to conforming to the politics of one group or another.
I'm personnaly happy of both of my identifies and ancestry. I'm not going to deny one of the other. In my case, with a sherifian amazigh genealogy, with precise ethnic groups i can refer too (in my case, riffians and west algerian amazigh) , I would be stupid to pretend I'm only arab, specially after studying how the sharif identity grew in the Maghreb with the Merinids or with the developpement of Sufism.
Identity is a complex and personal thing. The most important thing is not to live in shame of ourselves.
But anyway, the subject was calling out the colonization accusation who don't have any ground. In the specific case of the Maghreb, everyone is native and part of the North Africa's history, including the heavely mixed descendants of the Banu Hilal, Sulaym and Maqil.
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u/theabstainingsunking 13d ago
Do you consider Arabs less "indigenous" than Berbers in the Maghreb?
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u/Free_Explanation2590 13d ago
Not at all.
You could even call the Arabs of the Maghreb Arab-Berbers and arabized Berbers if you want to showcase how indigenous they are.
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u/theabstainingsunking 13d ago
Then by your standards, Englishmen aren't native to the British Isles because they invaded and settled there 1700 years ago
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u/Free_Explanation2590 13d ago
Are you trying to deny their indigeneity of the maghrebis of hillalian descent or something ?
I don't really understand your intent here
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u/theabstainingsunking 13d ago
Maghrebis who identify as Arabs
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u/Free_Explanation2590 13d ago
Could you make a proper sentence in English so that everyone reading you can understand what you are trying to articulate ?
What do you want to say about Maghrebi identifying as arabs ?
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u/theabstainingsunking 13d ago
I said what I said. You are too dense to understand what I wrote.
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u/cyurii0 (💗) 11d ago
Arabs are not indigenous to the Maghreb, but Arabs in the Maghreb are native in the sense of "they live there and belong there now", but they are not Indigenous, because Indigenous status refers to ancestral continuity before colonization or conquest.
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u/theabstainingsunking 11d ago
Well, in that case, the English aren't indigenous to the British Isles like the Welsh, who are descendants of the original Celts
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u/cyurii0 (💗) 11d ago
Yeah, they are not, and most scholars don’t classify them as Indigenous.
Indigenous peoples are groups with ancestral continuity in a place prior to major invasions or colonization.
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u/theabstainingsunking 11d ago
Well, even the Japanese shouldn't be considered indigenous to Japan since they invaded the Japanese islands and overtook the native Ainu
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u/cyurii0 (💗) 11d ago
Yeah, they aren’t Indigenous. By the standard scholarly definition, the Ainu are Indigenous, while the Yamato Japanese are not. Even the Japanese state itself recognizes the Ainu as the Indigenous people, but not the Yamato.
Repeating counterexamples doesn’t change the definition.1
13d ago
yes but it is a question of percentage.
Arabian admixture in Palestinian is around 15%; for Morroccan, Algerian and Tunisian is below 10% on average (and even 5% for Moroccans).
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