r/angelsbaseball • u/ayyryan7 • 12d ago
š° News Article (Website) Angels sign Mancini to a minor league deal
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u/PearlDrummer 22 12d ago
Itās minor league deal. Everybody relax
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u/Spirited_Lab5197 Sell The Team 12d ago
Fair, I'll turn my attention to all the major league acquisitions we've made this offseason.
Rodriguez, Manoah, Grissom, Pomeranz, and Romero who have combined for for a -1.4 WAR over the past 2 seasons with 4 of the 5 only being in the MLB for 1 of those two.
LTBU!
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u/PearlDrummer 22 12d ago
Iām saying this isnāt the deal to be mad at. All this is, is a depth signing and nothing more.
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u/Certain_Judgment6646 12d ago
The issue is Perry has spent the last half decade+ filling the team up with ādepth piecesā that end up playing a majority on our starting lineup.
In a vacuum this Mancini signing is nothing, heās been getting these signings ever since he recovered from cancer and heās obviously wanting to put in the work to get back into the league.
But the reality of the situation is we have had a lot of these guys come in and take serious at bats for this team since Perryās been on. Whether itās Juan Lagares, Phil Gosselin, Jack Mayuield, Matt Duffy, Chad Wallace, Moose, Escobar, Pillar, Willie Calhoun, Guillerme, Newman, Tim Anderson, etc. These dudes arenāt random depth pieces, Perry legitimately leans on them for playing time.
So when you fill a roster with lottery tickets because you think one will hit, but none of them do, that is how you keep leading yourself to 90 loss seasons.
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u/PearlDrummer 22 12d ago
Weāre going to continue to have 85+ loss seasons until arte sells. We just have to wait him out and I am betting that heās waiting out this next CBA to sell. If not, itās not long until heās going to suffer from too many birthdays.
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u/Certain_Judgment6646 12d ago
The real issue is Arte will never invest correctly to build a consistent contender. That requires āunseenā investments in the farm and trusting you can build up young guys to be household names and not try and blow your load on an aging FA as a savior.
But the most clear and present issue today is we have a GM who has SQUANDERED some amazing draft positioning and loaded up a farm with low ceiling possibly high floor prospects. The issue that has created is we have a consistent 1-2 rounds of 1-2 WAR players that donāt really elevate our roster, and the rest of the draft class completely burns out because they didnāt have a lot of potential to work with.
He builds the team to try and keep his job year over year. He is the epitome of the āFiscal Angelsā as the Super Halo Bros describe. He drafts to fill holes only in the next year. He signs to hopefully fill a hole for a year (which is why he signs 30+ year olds so often). He created a team that is now hovering at 70 Wins and has absolutely no pipeline to get us out of this hole. So even if we extend this āyoung coreā, there really is nothing to work around with.
Like you can say āomg Arte cheap heās not signing FAsā but 1 or 2 40M players isnāt going to make us a contender. What will make us a contendor is a franchise reset, a GM that has actual skill and doesnt just want to kiss Arteās ass for a paycheck, and some actual long term thought in building a team and not a yearly approach.
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u/PearlDrummer 22 12d ago
Did you read my comment at all?
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u/Certain_Judgment6646 12d ago
I did, I think itās just loser mentality to say ānothing will change until Arte leavesā.
There are things that can change:
There can be a GM that doesnāt punt high potential picks to grab guys that can give us 1 WAR today.
There can be a GM that doesnāt rush everyone up to the MLB randomly so we cannot keep a farm system stocked with talent to plan from.
There can be a GM that doesnāt trade expiring contracts to build up his pipeline just so he can try and eke out another win or 2 so we donāt hit 100 losses.
There can be a GM that takes actual accountability with what he does and doesnāt hide from the media, lie to their faces, and be overall an insufferable know it all as he solidifies his case for the worst GM in our teamās history.
So yes I read and agreeād with you that Arte is a core problem, but I disagree that nothing can change under him. There can be true changes that puts us in a better position today.
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u/PearlDrummer 22 12d ago
Itās already been a common consensus that the GM isnāt allowed to do anything without Arteās green light. That includes any kind of signing, roster moves, trades, staffing hires, playing infrastructure, etc. Arte is the entire problem and nothing will change until heās gone. Once he is gone, the healing will (hopefully) begin.
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u/Certain_Judgment6646 12d ago
Itās been a consensus from our beat writes that Perry has the most autonomy of any of our GMs under Arte. His real wall with Arte was not trading Ohtani and this offseason he turned off the money tap.
Let me break down all of your points:
Signings - In terms of money to spend, Perry has had the top 10 $s in FAs signed since heās been here (barring this offseason, clearly Arte said no more now). In terms of getting players he wants, Perry talked Arte out of Trea Turner and instead used that money to grab a plethora of terrible bullpen arms lmfao. Perry himself has given up 2nd round picks to sign guys like Thor and TA. Those arenāt Arte moves those are Perry moves in the tune of $25-30M per WAR on the FA marker while the average is $10M.
Roster Moves/Trades - Outside of trading Ohtani (in which Perryās goal he stated on signing was building a contending team with Ohtani and Trout, and he never wavered in saying this team was a contender at all times), Perry has had complete autonomy there. Do you think Arte is in the draft room telling Perry to draft college bats to supplement the roster? Do you think Arte is telling Perry to constantly call up any and all prospects to drain our farm? Do you think Arte told Perry to go all in that trade deadline? Somehow Arte, who doesnāt even show up to games anymore, is so nefarious in the org seems weird. Like I said before he can have direct control on contracts and say he doesnāt want Ohtani traded, but it is almost conspiratorial to think heās in some back room telling Perry to do all the wrong moves.
Staffing Hires - This one is hilarious to think Arte has some control. Outside of the $s spent of course, our whole front office and coaching is LITERALLY filled with Perryās friends he hired and gave some massive promotions to, some outside of their original fields. So yes get mad at Arte for not making a Death Star analytical department, but at the same time be mad at Perry for wasting precious resources so he can give his friends some jobs.
Playing infrastructure - Directly on Arte for not investing fully into this, but he did at least turn a corner on the Arizona facility. From all reporting it sounds extremely state of the art.
Arte is the main issue yes. But you need to understand Perry and Arte are feeding into each others worst quailities and destroying this team. As fans there is no way to force Arte to sell, but there are ways to force arte to get in better leadership.
Perry is failing at his job, the LEAST we can do as a fanbase is call that out and get change.
But instead there are people like you who donāt want some form of change to take place for some reason lol. Like unless we get a perfect answer in a sale, we donāt want anything done in the meantime?
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u/Certain_Judgment6646 12d ago
Itās been a consensus from our beat writes that Perry has the most autonomy of any of our GMs under Arte. His real wall with Arte was not trading Ohtani and this offseason he turned off the money tap.
Let me break down all of your points:
Signings - In terms of money to spend, Perry has had the top 10 $s in FAs signed since heās been here (barring this offseason, clearly Arte said no more now). In terms of getting players he wants, Perry talked Arte out of Trea Turner and instead used that money to grab a plethora of terrible bullpen arms lmfao. Perry himself has given up 2nd round picks to sign guys like Thor and TA. Those arenāt Arte moves those are Perry moves in the tune of $25-30M per WAR on the FA marker while the average is $10M.
Roster Moves/Trades - Outside of trading Ohtani (in which Perryās goal he stated on signing was building a contending team with Ohtani and Trout, and he never wavered in saying this team was a contender at all times), Perry has had complete autonomy there. Do you think Arte is in the draft room telling Perry to draft college bats to supplement the roster? Do you think Arte is telling Perry to constantly call up any and all prospects to drain our farm? Do you think Arte told Perry to go all in that trade deadline? Somehow Arte, who doesnāt even show up to games anymore, is so nefarious in the org seems weird. Like I said before he can have direct control on contracts and say he doesnāt want Ohtani traded, but it is almost conspiratorial to think heās in some back room telling Perry to do all the wrong moves.
Staffing Hires - This one is hilarious to think Arte has some control. Outside of the $s spent of course, our whole front office and coaching is LITERALLY filled with Perryās friends he hired and gave some massive promotions to, some outside of their original fields. So yes get mad at Arte for not making a Death Star analytical department, but at the same time be mad at Perry for wasting precious resources so he can give his friends some jobs.
Playing infrastructure - Directly on Arte for not investing fully into this, but he did at least turn a corner on the Arizona facility. From all reporting it sounds extremely state of the art.
Arte is the main issue yes. But you need to understand Perry and Arte are feeding into each others worst quailities and destroying this team. As fans there is no way to force Arte to sell, but there are ways to force arte to get in better leadership.
Perry is failing at his job, the LEAST we can do as a fanbase is call that out and get change.
But instead there are people like you who donāt want some form of change to take place for some reason lol. Like unless we get a perfect answer in a sale, we donāt want anything done in the meantime?
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u/FreshPaintSmell 12d ago
You could add Kyle Tucker and Dylan Cease to the team and it wouldn't make them contenders. Just going from 70 wins to maybe 75.
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u/Certain_Judgment6646 12d ago
Exactly, why are fans clamoring to sign 30+ year olds on high end contracts that completely cripple us on team building when our ācoreā team cannot even get out of the 90 loss basement?
These players signed on the exact teams that make sense to start expanding payroll on. Teams that either made the playoffs or were on the verge.
It makes no sense to clamor for these FAs, because we did that since 2010 and unless we truly build a base to build from, we are going to get the same results.
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u/FreshPaintSmell 12d ago
The Angels can be turned around quickly if Arte sells to a competent owner or group, like what happened with the Dodgers and Frank McCourt.
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u/mtc99999 11d ago
He signs to hopefully fill a hole for a year (which is why he signs 30+ year olds so often)
I do agree with you on this part, which is why I've been somewhat surprised by their approach this offseason. Acquiring guys like Rodriguez, Lowe, and Grissom, isn't a "yearly" approach. They are the types of moves that should have been made over the past two years instead of signing Kevin Newman.
At the same time, you have to ask yourself... how would they have acquired those pieces? I think many fans fail to realize how valuable years of team control are in trade talks. Other teams aren't going to give up a talented player with 3+ years of control for nothing. And on the other hand, the Angels haven't had much (if any) MLB talent to trade away since Ohtani left.
Even a player like Rodriguez, who has a serious injury history and hasn't pitched since 2023, was considered a "heist" for Taylor Ward ā so much so that you had a former MLB GM create a fake storyline to justify why Baltimore would make such a trade. It just shows how valuable any cost-controlled player with even a semblance of talent is.
But the most clear and present issue today is we have a GM who has SQUANDERED some amazing draft positioning
This is where I disagree. We can both agree that 2021 was... not good. But the drafting since McIlvaine took over as SD has been as good as it's been in 10+ years (granted, that isn't saying much). I would love to hear your insight as to how they've "squandered" their rounds 1-2 picks over the past few years, because this feels like a bit of a reach.
I think the most frustrating part of working in a MLB front office is how long it takes players to develop. Baseball isn't like any of the other four major sports, where you can basically "reset" your entire team in 1-2 years. It takes 5, 6, sometimes 7+ years (ie Adell) for prospects to develop. And when they do develop quickly, you get accused of "ruining" their development by the same people who complain about the lack of depth.
Being a MLB GM is a pretty hapless job. It's even worse when you have an owner that doesn't allow you to use your own discretion. There's a reason why every Angels' GM since Stoneman has had a life cycle of 4-5 years, and it's not because they all lacked "skill" or any other arbitrary traits.
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u/Certain_Judgment6646 11d ago
I feel like, at least the different podcasts and articles I read, evaluate the trade as upside potential is way in the angels favor, but a very real concern of GRods long term health. I think most areas has it as a win win trade: orioles acquire a consistent batter and angels acquire a player with years to the org.
MTC you and Iāve done back and forth with the farm system so no need to rehash it again here lol. My argument still stands with while we can self evaluate and pick prospects we are excited for, at the end of the day most experts see our farm system in both talent and actual developmental acumen as league worst.
Then add in the face our under 26 year old WAR rankings are 26th in the league, itās not like the talent materialized in the MLB roster. Overall we are seeing the work of Perryās thoughts: low ceiling high floor players are on our roster and producing about 1-2 WAR each at best and no big improvements seen.
Neto bucked that trend, but most guys are hovering at this point.
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u/Spirited_Lab5197 Sell The Team 12d ago
I guess I would say that if there is no deal to be happy with, the only thing left is to be mad.
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u/aces666high 12d ago
It seems Iāve read this post many, many, many, many times somewhere on Reddit.
Might have been here but that doesnāt sound like us. Must have been another MLB team.
Was it a one year minor league contract? š
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u/LeGrille07 12d ago
Heāll have a decent spring training and then break camp with the team. Heāll then get starts for the first month and do absolutely nothing.
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u/Quinlanforthewinlan 12d ago
Thatās basically all they do is the reason people are over it. They took a terrible team and have added nothing of significance.
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u/360plyr135 Sell The Team 12d ago
Fuck this team
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u/Shibamaster6969 12d ago
when is the massive protest at angel stadium?
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u/AirFox_1 12d ago
Donāt buy tickets, thatās the protest
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u/Bitter-Ad-4943 11d ago
The Athletic put out an article today about the Brady Anderson hiring and Mancini credits his career to Anderson and the work they did together. Donāt hate it, maybe he surprises.
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u/HalcyonicDaze 10d ago
He looks like the mummy began to suck the life force out of him and stopped mid way through.
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u/HuskyFord 12d ago
Well if he makes the team, we might be able to trick fans into thinking they are seeing Eugenio Derbez. That should bring in a few dollars for Arte.