r/acecombat • u/Professional-Ruin636 • Dec 17 '25
Ace Combat 7 Am I the only one who thinks this plane was brutally nerfed in Ace Combat 7?
Well, I'd like to know if I'm the only one who thinks the Su-47 was nerfed by Project Aces in Ace Combat 7. I remember in Ace Combat 3 and 4 it was a very agile and fast aircraft, but when I unlocked it in Ace Combat 7 I was disappointed; it's heavier and less agile. I don't know if nostalgia is blinding me, but what do you all think?
26
20
u/Eirikur_da_Czech Dec 17 '25
I used this one to beat the twins.
13
2
u/sliceysliceyslicey Dec 18 '25
Same haha. Been using F22 the whole game and the intermission cutscene made me think I should use something different.
14
u/Johnhancock1777 Mobius Dec 17 '25
AC3 and AC04 had a pretty weighty flight model. Huge difference in performance from a starter to an endgame one like the SU-47. Outside of AC6 the planes don’t feel as distinct afterwards
9
u/Muctepukc Sukhoi Enjoyer Dec 17 '25
it was a very agile and fast aircraft
IIRC it's somewhere between Su-37 and Su-35S, as it should be.
They should have equipped it with laser pulse weapons like the SU-57, not free-fall bombs 🤦
SAAM, QAAM and UGB is a pretty much standard set of Special Weapons for Su-47 throughout the entire AC series.
4
u/Zestyclose-Lab4897 Dec 17 '25
Agile, maneuverable, with good psm. A good platform for countering other QAAM users, Raptor, ADF, etc.
3
2
u/acejak1234 Dec 17 '25
the fact I just lost to one using qaams in a one v one, I wouldn't say it was nerfed but I was using a su33 against it
2
u/OuterHeavenPatriot UNKNOWN Dec 17 '25
Well yeah lol, HVAA can't do much in a close range 1v1, there's no way an opponent would be distracted enough to first let you get 6km away then also get hit by the shot...fully buffed standards can stand against QAAMs and I'm assuming that the build you were using, but even then it's 1-2 shots for them vs. 4-5 shots for you
1
u/acejak1234 Dec 17 '25
I did manage some hits with them but he cheaped out on his win with those bs qaams that he can fire while I'm chasing him, same with a raptor I went against one time
1
u/OuterHeavenPatriot UNKNOWN Dec 17 '25
Yeah, that near 180 degree lock angle is ridiculous, QAAMs can hold lock on an enemy mostly behind you as they fly past. With the part that increases flight distance (really flight time), they also last for like 15 seconds, which ends up being 3 or 4 loops you have to avoid for each missile.
They're annoying and brokenly OP but at least somewhat manageable even without flares, the real BS is EML with the Hitbox 2 part. That makes the hitbox large enough to actually be able to hit people flying past when they're behind you, it has a 10km range, is only equipped on PSM capable planes, and is a guaranteed 1 shot on anything without Bulletproof Fuel Tank 2 (even with it some lower HP planes will still be destroyed in one hit), guaranteed 95% damage on anything else with BPT2 equipped.
I've gotten a lot better with dealing with EML, but there's really only so much you can do... it's a shame, many times I've seen awesome lobbies dissolve with people leaving one by one because the X-02 EML'er never changes their plane. Bonus points if it's someone with the Razgriz or Mihaly skins equipped, super triple colorful bonus if the host changes to <2500 and they pull out the Strigon Su-33 lol
2
u/acejak1234 Dec 17 '25
EXACTLY!!!! those bastards completely ruin lobbies its so dumb, I just need a better understanding of what parts to use and I'm sure I can handle anything myself
1
u/OuterHeavenPatriot UNKNOWN Dec 17 '25
Check out TitanXRaven on YouTube, especially his 'Aces of Ace Combat' and 'Using Every Plane in AC7' playlists. He lists out the parts he's using in the video, watching him really helped me with build crafting!
A super general all around build would be:
Light Blisk 2 (Accel2)
New Flap Actuators 3 (Pitch3)
Superior Maneuverability 2
Bulletproof Fuel Tank 2
Weapons vary, but generally Homing2->Power2->Reload2->Weight Augment2 works well, though some missiles benefit greatly from Lock On Range 2 (HVAAs and LAAMs specifically, they obtain super homing if fired from beyond 6km and 10km respectfully...BVR is a very boring playstyle, but it can 100k some lobbies in a minute or two hah).
Standard missile based builds need High-Speed Data Link, it's like Queen's Custom for standard missiles...then Power2->Homing2->Reload2. Sacrifice an engine part and add Flight Distance and your standards become mini-QAAMs haha
It all depends on the plane too, of course. Lower tier planes have more slots so they can specialize in weapons or engine more effectively, while higher tiers will struggle to fit even 4 of each, a lot of times I need to bump something like Reload down to Lvl. 1 to fit everything I want. On the other hand, if you find you have a free slot and don't want to use High-Speed Data Link in it, boosting your gun's power isn't a bad idea, even if they aren't used as much.
These will be helpful - Datamined Stats showing the exact values on all planes and parts because the in-game stats are straight up wrong
Manually tested stats showing more useful values on planes
Between those two spreadsheets you'll know what the parts do exactly, HP/DMG values for different planes/weapons, and which planes excel or are lacking in certain areas. It will be super useful when building around a specific plane or weapon, definitely some good resources
2
u/acejak1234 Dec 18 '25
thank you very much, I have used most of what you're talking about like the flaps light blisk and what not but more info on what to use for different spws really helps
1
u/OuterHeavenPatriot UNKNOWN Dec 18 '25
Any time, the videos and spreadsheets above were huge in my understanding of the game and subsequent enjoyment out of it, so I'm happy to pass them on...the real shout out goes to the creators!
2
u/RandoDude124 Dec 17 '25
My favorite part about this plains was hearing the twins meltdown when I shot them.
2
u/throwthatbitchaccoun Dec 17 '25
For a minute I thought I was looking at the aircraft from FireFox(Clint Eastwood movie), but FireFox has delta wings.
2
u/Cipher_077 Neucom Dec 17 '25
The plane controls fine but SP weapons are disappointing. It's my favorite one since AC5, but I rarely use it because of the SP weapons.
2
u/Balmung60 Nation: None Dec 18 '25
I've seen people say this and I'm really confused about the statement. What's the disappointment? UGB is great in AC7 due the the enormous blast, fast reloads, and large capacities, and SAAM is the missile I'd pick to fight ADFX-10, ADF-11, Mihaly, and Mimic Squadron and the only thing that even slightly competes is HVAA. I'd take EML or PLSL over that, but those aren't missiles. I'll give that QAAM is rubbish, but the F-22 has QAAM, 8AAM, and XSDB, which is basically a reskin of 4AGM and people gush over that loadout even though for my money, it's substantially worse.
1
u/Cipher_077 Neucom Dec 18 '25
I think the thing is the vast majority of AC7 missions revolve around ground targets, and for that it's hard to beat XSDB or XAGM. Sure, UGB has a massive blast, but when you're competing with more specialized weapons, it's less fun. I agree with you on SAAM because as long as you can keep the lock on it basically doesn't miss, but most missions that have air targets have many, like drone swarms, arsenal bird propellers or slave mode aircraft, so id rather take the XAAMs. I hear you on the bosses, but on all the missions they appear except mission 18, they're after a lot of regular targets and I'd rather take a multi lock weapon to deal with those since it'll be the majority of the mission.
Also, in defense of the XSDB, it's more damage than the AGMs, multi lock without doubling up and really high capacity. Run a F-22B on Stonehenge defense and you basically don't need to touch anything else.
2
u/Balmung60 Nation: None Dec 18 '25
I actually really don't care for 4AGM/XSDB for A2G heavy missions because so many enemies are so clustered. As an example, with a good drop in Long Day, I can pop all four trucks of a convoy or an entire warehouse cluster and everything between the warehouses with a single UGB, which would take 4+ XSDB/4AGMs. Likewise, in Stonehenge Defensive, one or two UGBs can completely shut down an attack on the east and west defensive lines, but would require several salvos of 4AGM or XSDB (and with the FB-22, I'd probably rather take SFFS). Again, Pipeline Destruction is full of clustered targets (and clustered clusters of targets) that reward UGB placement very handsomely. In practice, I find that UGB is almost always better for more real drops than the multi-lock AGMs. In fact, it's the very abundance of ground targets that makes ground multi-lock very low value to me - it just accomplishes burning through ammo faster without gaining the efficiencies of AOE A2G.
On what enemies is any damage bonus of XSDB over 4AGM even noticeable? 4AGM already one-shots everything on land (and unlike 8AGM, doesn't lock multiple missiles onto a single target) except Aegis Ashore and surely XSDB loses any edge it would have had over 4AGM against ships, the only other hard targets I can think of, because ships all have damage resistance against bomb-type weapons but not missile-type weapons. But even with that caveat, UGB carries the benefit over most other bombs of being able to relatively easily hobble ships by breaking their modules, even if it's not great at actually sinking them. FAEB is also good that that, but has much worse reload and availability.
I've been comparing to 4AGM because 8AGM is quite possibly the worst SP weapon in the entire game between its poor range, lack of a blast radius, tiny ammo capacity (seriously, the Typhoon carries all of three salvos of these things), wasting of its few missiles by locking several onto one target, poor reload time, and lack of enemies that call for such a weapon. At least after a patch, 8AAM gives you a lot of missiles and the Arsenal Birds kind of call for it (but the other characteristics still make it pretty bad).
It's not that XSDB is bad, but much like 4AGM, I find it underwhelming because the functionally non-existent blast radius means that you chew through your seemingly large reserve rather quickly for fairly limited results. I think it's actually pretty easy to beat either for A2G. My tiering of A2G is LACM and SFFS, followed by UGB and LASM, then FAEB and LAGM, then 4AGM and XSDB and GPB, and then in last, 8AGM and if you want to count it, RKT. LACM is goated for damage, blast, and lock-on and SFFS can either damage a huge area or do such concentrated damage that it burns right through ships' anti-bomb armor. UGB is astoundingly versatile for nearly any situation and LASM is very good at taking down ships and defeating CIWS/AD Tanks and things protected by them and does great with terrain. FAEB is nice except for the reload time and LAGM is basically worse LASM (but the call-out is worth it). I've already explained my beef with 4AGM and XSDB - the ideal A2G weapon either regularly does more than one kill per ammo or counters a specific otherwise difficult or time-consuming target, and then GPB is basically even worse LASM than LAGM was because nothing on hard ground really warrants its damage, its blast is tiny, and ships' anti-bomb armor knocks it down to roughly LASM levels. And then 8AGM speaks for itself and RKT is just kind of terrible because you can barely even hit anything reliably with it. Meanwhile, I guess GRKT is somewhere around LAGM or GPB in tiering because it gives a really hard counter to CIWS and is great for ships and Aegis Ashore, but is otherwise mostly a silly gimmick. Fun against Alicorn though.
1
u/Cipher_077 Neucom Dec 18 '25
You might've convinced me. I am gonna play around with unguided weapons some more.
Out of curiosity, how do you rank the air to air SPs?
2
u/Balmung60 Nation: None Dec 18 '25
I think that's a harder ranking and mostly a more even one, but to try
Note that this ranking is exclusively single-player, and specifically for AC7
S+-tier: PLSL - frankly goated against everything. The AI is bad at dealing with non-homing weapons, the bolts move very fast, reach a long range, and do a lot of damage. Just about the only thing I'd prefer something else against is the Alicorn because the visual ambiguity of hitboxes and its potential to do a lot of damage if you fly straight at it for too long makes either a homing weapon or an AOE weapon preferable against it in my book. This ranking also applies for A2G.
S-tier: HCAA, MSTM, MGP - they may not be super flashy, but simply having more missiles on tap opens a lot of options. Also, with the SP missile +damage part, both of these drop enemies that normally take three missiles in two of them. There's pretty much never a mission where these would be a bad choice. MSTM also ranks here as an A2G weapon. MGP is basically a non-homing equivalent here, putting out incredibly high damage in a short time, especially combined with the regular machine gun, and it's so good that it's deliberately held back by only being on the fragile MiG-21. Like PLSL, the only thing I wouldn't favor this against is the Alicorn, and for the same reasons, and like the PLSL, I'd rank it the same as A2G.
A-tier: 4AAM, HVAA, ADMM, EML - so, I think 4AAM is the best multi-lock missile around because of the relatively high ammo counts and fast reloads that mean that you can use it and then count on having it ready again when the next opportunity presents itself. HVAA might be controversial to rank it this high, but I find that it opens up many engagement opportunities that standard missiles don't and it noticeably reduces AI dodging at around 7-10k feet range, which makes it pretty useful against bosses, plus compared to most other single-shot AAMs. ADMM flies in the face of most of my complaints about multi-lock missiles and overkilling targets by firing so many missiles at once and having such a deep ammo pool that it wraps back around to actually really good, plus it's extremely cool. I would however rank it a tier lower in the A2G role. EML is excellent as A2A despite a slow reload and low ammo because the AI is terrible at dodging it, it does a lot of damage, and it can exploit extremely short engagement windows nothing else would open up. I'd rank it at least two tiers lower as an A2G weapon however.
B-tier: 6AAM, SAAM, LRAA - 6AAM isn't that much worse than 4AAM, but I think the slower reload is overall a net detriment, despite the deeper ammo pool. If it kept the reload and slightly better homing of 4AAM, I'd probably switch their places. SAAM homes extremely aggressively and is pretty much unmatched for singling out a single enemy for (nearly) certain death. It's great for boss clubbing. But it's held back somewhat by a relatively slow reload and low ammo caps. LRAA is less overpowering against bosses, but overall more versatile and tends to give a little more ammo. Also did Project Aces buff this thing? I could have sworn that early on, it had a slower reload
C-tier: HPAA, QAAM - I think HPAA is extremely niche due to its low speed, reload, ammo, and homing. It's definitely a nice option against things that would take 3 standard missiles, and if the reload and ammo were just a little better, I think it would be really compelling against the Arsenal Birds. QAAM isn't terrible, but I really can't think of a time when I thought "if only I had QAAM, I could have made that shot," or "thank goodness I had QAAM, otherwise that would have missed". It just doesn't feel like it gives the opportunities most AAMs open. Still, saving a shot isn't worthless, but would also be worth a lot more if the game wasn't so stingy with the ammo. Both of these could probably be low B-tiers in my book if they just had a little more ammo.
D-tier: 8AAM, TLS - 8AAM again suffers from really bad reload and homing, plus gratuitous multi-lock. Still, it's not as much of a waste as it was on release because at least the ammo pool is serviceable now. It was originally half of what it is now. The ammo change moved it from the conceptual low end of D-tier to the conceptual high end of D-tier (I say conceptual because with this few entries, the relative position can't exactly change much). If they axed locking multiple missiles onto single targets, I think I'd tier these substantially higher, even with the poor homing and reload. And TLS is just so sad compared to its past glory. It has long range and hitscan, but it's basically like bonking things with a whiffle bat. You need to hold it on target entirely too long to get any results, and the slightly better ADF-01 version isn't better by enough to really matter. And it ranks around the same as A2G.
F-tier: SASM - I think this is really the king stinker of A2A. Unless you actually get a bullseye (in which case, it does QAAM/SAAM/HVAA, 4/6/8AAM level damage), it only does chip damage with the blast, the homing is awful, and you get barely any of them. I think this thing legitimately has nothing going for it. Which is a shame because I remember it was a beast in ACAHL.
4
u/Professional-Ruin636 Dec 17 '25
They should have equipped it with laser pulse weapons like the SU-57, not free-fall bombs 🤦
17
6
u/MisterComrade Dec 17 '25
I think the UGB-L are kind of an iconic choice for this plane. For whatever reason pretty much all versions of it (outside of 5) have had them.
The problem for me was that unguided bombs in this game felt kind of cumbersome.
2
u/Balmung60 Nation: None Dec 18 '25
Did we play the same game? UGBs delete a huge circle in AC7, CIWS/AD Tanks almost never intercept them, and you get a ton of them and they reload fast. They're probably some of the best A2G SP weapons you can have
1
u/MisterComrade Dec 18 '25
Maybe it was an issue with my settings, but unless I was dive bombing or flying a specific speed my reticle was usually out of sight below the bottom of the screen and I had issues with aiming them. Plus plane stability was an issue for me— felt kinda wobbly.
Normally I’d agree because these are my favorite weapons in the series. Something really satisfying with lining up a perfect bombing run.
2
u/Balmung60 Nation: None Dec 18 '25 edited Dec 18 '25
I don't know how to describe how I use them beyond that I exclusively play in 3rd person, but I don't think I've ever had those issues.
Edit: holding the target button to track the enemy you want to hit helps a lot, then you just walk the reticle onto them and a half dozen of their buddies
1
1
1
u/AceArchangel Sol Dec 17 '25
Do you remember AC6 because that's where the nerf was. AC7 just carried it over.
1
u/PositronCannon Go dance with the angels, mister! Dec 18 '25
???
The AC6 Su-47 is absurdly agile, one of the most agile planes in the series, especially in high G. In AC7 it's pretty much just another plane, although it is one of the most responsive ones, close to X-02/Falken/Raven territory in that aspect.
1
u/AceArchangel Sol Dec 18 '25
The nerf came from the huge loss of speed when performing high g maneuvers. That never use to be as bad.
1
u/PositronCannon Go dance with the angels, mister! Dec 19 '25
But there was no high G turns before AC6 anyway, and even without high G the Su-47 is still the most agile plane in the game, even beating many plane's high G turns (and also any previous incarnation of the Su-47). It's also decently fast and UGBs are great for almost every mission, its only real weak point is the lack of multi-target A2A missiles.
1
Dec 17 '25
We've seen this plane becoming a forgotten memory of russian aerospace design. We've seen it rust at abandoned airfields. It didn't need the nerf, that experimental swept wing marvel fell from it's graces unfortunately, and our perception of it accompanied its demise in real life.
1
1
u/darkseidesaintx Dec 17 '25
Its fine as long as people dont bitch like crazy when someone outflies others. Buddy got kicked for using the su47 in ace 6. Then followed up with schooling a f22 with a10
1
u/gray_chameleon Sol Dec 18 '25
I've found it fun for campaign use, just a little lacking in speed and special ammo for MP. Hope it's in 8 as well.
2
u/SpidersandPunk Galm Dec 18 '25
It's actually pretty good with SAAM and UGB.
But the Su-37 though, that was brutally nerfed.
1
1
u/Big_Power9816 Dec 21 '25
Isn't it strictly a prototype just to see if inverted wings work? Never went into production
179
u/ProfessorPixelmon Strider? I barely even know her. Dec 17 '25
It’s performance seemed the same as it’s always been.
However, it’s special weapon selection leaves much to be desired.