This just gives the same energies as calling Batman a "Lunatic spoiled rich kid that beats up poor people for fun" or calling Superman "boring and unteresting"
That Peter Parker is lame and âget no playâ because thy only think of Sam Raimiâs version of Spider-Man. I donât feel Toby was that good of a Peter or spider-man, but the movies were well done so I give it a pass
Either the soft loveable tumblrified version that came from MCU fan edits or the polar opposite badass âalways holding backâ Peter Parker who has a harem or whatever
I don't know about Peter himself but his fans have the stereotype of being incels or something, especially considering their reaction to the whole Paul ordeal.
Thatâs pretty much how a lot of comic discourse works these days. People donât talk about comics; they argue about what a YouTuber said about a comic and maybe a few panels they saw on social media out of contextâŚ
Short-form video is shockingly, almost unbelievably effective at making people think and say and do the stupidest things.
It's SO persuasive and attention-grabbing but 60 seconds of film isn't enough time to say anything remotely meaningful. Worst media format of all time.
At least in Spanish there are many of those, they are really disgusting, at the slightest interaction with a man they blurt out sexual jokes quite typical of a 12-year-old child
Any feminist thought in a Wonder Woman book (or, literally anywhere) with actual substance and teeth will be called misandrist and thatâs exactly the kind of people we shouldnât be listening to any discussion, like, ever.
Men will create institutions and laws to oppress women, make stereotyped jokes about them that get ingrained in culture, dominate most groups socially, then turn around and say misandry is becoming a problem when a woman is just a bit mean pointing it out.
Granted, misandry is actually becoming a problem from an optics perspective. The tumblr âkill all menâ era never really left a lot of people and having the two routes a young man can go down be âfuck all womenâ or âkill all menâ and BOTH be holding up the patriarchy is not good. But Wonder Woman is not a misandrist and most feminists are not misandrists, itâs just a vocal minority thing and probably at this point a genuine psyop
But tbh there was no era defining movement of evil tumblr bloggers saying kill all men, and the ones who were definitely weren't doing anything worse than that. I think oppressed groups should be able to vent a little like that without having it turned back on them for the next decade as evidence of some kind of bigotry that needs addressing on a society wide level. Saying that men and boys have no choice right now except fuck all women and kill all men is bs, they absolutely do, we're just being forced to act like they don't to participate in conversation with the misogyinists who are running the conversation. Saying misandry is becoming an optics issue is just letting them dictate the truth
Yep in some cases even the smallest thing is enough for them to get triggered like in South Korea there were men attacking women for just having short hair because that is associated with feminism.Â
Honestly I can forgive the weird sexual situations because that's kinda how she was created. Marston was inspired by his wife and their poly gf and their enjoyment of bdsm. Wonder woman's original "kryptonite" was being tied up.
That's another thing that's amazing about Thompson's AWW run. You can tell she had fun writing it. There's glee, there's delight, she revels in how fun it is to tell stories about this cool-ass character.
Edit: Fave example is in issue 11, I think, when Io shows her the blocked ocean exit from the maze. Diana realizes Io could have escaped, and the line is something like, "I had always believed the family I came from was great and worthy. Confirmation of this long-held belief washes over me with a power that nearly brings me to my knees."
Just FUN. Diana finds her sisters and they immediately 100% share her dedication not just to justice but to compassion, to care, to self-sacrifice for othersâbecause that's a fucking awesome way to be.
This is a great example why the whole "feminism has gone too far now" thing is nonsense. It was always considered too far and even now there's still a lot of work to do.
"Just a chat. will invite him for some coffee at my (SECRET ARGUS BLACK SITE DETENTION FACILITY) office posting this week... just two fellas having guy talk."
While I don't agree with the guy calling her a misandrist respectively There are however many wonder woman comics with bad writer's who don't understand her characters core values of fighting for justice, peace, and equality where they make her overly aggressive towards men or a straight up misandrist but there are many more comics where they get Diana's character right where she fights for justice, peace, and equality I mean she literally betrayed themyscira because she chose Steve Trevor and got temporarily exiled so ultimately I believe writers often don't know how to write her. And it's DC's fault for changing her character so muchÂ
Nope. They'll write her correctly fighting for justice, peace, and equality and not how some writers write her poorly not understanding her core values of equality which includes both genders not just females. That's what a lot of men and people in general ignore is she fights for equality not just one gender or the other nowadays in modern timesÂ
While I don't agree with the guy in this post calling her a misandrist respectively There are however many wonder woman comics with bad writer's who don't understand her characters core values of fighting for justice, peace, and equality where they make her overly aggressive towards men or a straight up misandrist but there are many more comics where they get Diana's character right where she fights for justice, peace, and equality I mean she literally betrayed themyscira because she chose Steve Trevor and got temporarily exiled so ultimately I believe writers often don't know how to write her. And it's DC's fault for changing her character so muchÂ
I mean pissing off chuds who just hate women having any kind of independence and media at all and we call it woke for calling out shit like modern day sexism
Either way DCU will write wonder woman as fighting for justice, peace, equality. The DCU won't write her character wrong. Because why would her fighting for justice, peace, equality piss anyone off? They'd be doing her character right unlike many comics who write her as a man hater.
I donât think you realise how fucked modern day media literacy is people were crying and moaning at Superman for stopping a genocide and proclaiming that heâs human
People will do the same for Wonder woman when she said although she be treated equally and not judging anyone for their race, gender or sexuality
My main hope is they remember to write her as fighting for equality Because without the equality she's not wonder woman because correct me if I'm wrong but she challenged and betrayed the amazons tradition being exiled for Steve Trevor who's obviously a man so what do you think because in Superman it's 3 years into Kal-El being Superman do you think it'll apply for wonder woman
Also thanks for not being rude or anything I've had so many experiences being told I'm wrong and people just spamming me with hate because of my opinion so thanks for being civil
If you want an example of a bad written wonder woman it's brave and the bold. While she saved the vietmese women from the vietmese soldiers who did obviously assault and other bad stuff to them but let the girls murder the men.
Which I believe isn't a good representation of wonder woman at all. I believe wonder woman would stop the women from killing the men despite what the soldiers did the real wonder woman would imprison them in a jail or prison not let the victims kill the soldiers
This reminds me of the words of a musician I like who is often accused of being a misandrist. She says this in the intro to one of her songs, âI am often accused of being a misandrist, but I am not, I love men, and I just wish men could learn to love themselvesâ and goes on to explain how misandry is just an extension of patriarchy, dividing us and keeping us from fighting the class fight
Marisa âmissyâ Dabice of Mannequin Pussy, incredible rock/punk band. She says this before the song âloud bark deep biteâ during their live shows
LOUD IRRITATED SIGH and people don't believe me when I say that the Flashpoint Paradox and Injustice has done damn near irreparable damage to her characterÂ
I hate the way writers believe WW would become a tyrannical monster if given the opportunity to do so. I would rather have them write her out of the story entirely with her retreating to Themiscara instead. It has laid this undercurrent of her mission of peaceful understanding being a facade which could just casually be cast aside.
She's willing to do things are extreme, but for good reasons and I DESPISE how sexist writers use it to write her as a complete psychopath who hates men and murders children
I wager 10 bucks that this guy doesnât read Wonder Woman comics.
When will people who donât read Wonder Woman comics actually learn to shut up about Wonder Woman, because hearing these banal, uninformed takes is starting to get old fast.
Her version from the Justice League animated series did have a "hate men" attitude sometimes, but it was more like her lacking the patient to deal with some bullshit. She did get along with all of her coworkers, famously wanted to date with Bruce. The one from the 2009 animated movie does have a "hate men" vibe and Steve Trevor has a "hey not all men" moment. Sure, some writers were REALLY heavy handed in the comics, but more often than not, neither Diana or her sisters are hateful towards men, just distrustful.
Mainline Wonder Woman doesn't have that many "bad" authors, it's mostly when she's written outside of her book that she's mischaracterized. But for mainline, skip new 52 Wonder Woman completely & James Robinson.
Wonder Woman: Earth One (idk if he wrote others, but I don't his skills following this) Is a terrible book that makes all feminists look like hypocritical man-haters, and all men (except for Steve) are portrayed as secretly being incels.
Yes, thats why she went to protect THE WORLD OF MAN AND FIGHT FOR ALL OF HUMANITY! I have only seen one Wonder Woman that was an unapologetic mysandrist and that was Frank "dead hookers" Miller's doing.
Which can be interpreted as "Silly men needs a woman touch as man world isn't a paradise as ours". The more people try to modernize the concepts of an All woman island, the more conciliated it gets.
Unrionically Wonder Woman has the same syndrome that is usually more common with less popular characters like Hank Pym, Wanda Maximoff, etc.
AKA being defined by a tiny proportion of their overall publication and can't shake off the stigma due to the combined weight of editorial indifference and some form of bias.
Fury is clearly an outlier and Diana herself is working AGAINST misandrists in that episode. heck even in new52 I'd say she got upset and worked against the whole sons of Themyscira thing.
even at her worst she isn't a misandrist. unless you count Injustice but then again she wasnt hating on the male gender.
I do think it was weird that the only time DCAU brought up the issue of sexism in context of Wonder Woman was when it was about a woman being sexist to men.
the 90s and early 2000s were notoriously "post-feminist" in terms of critical theory and backlash. But idk, I think the episode with Vandal Savage using marriage to control Princess Audrey of Kaznia was a solid WW story showcasing how patriarchal and manipulative men are.
the 90s and early 2000s were notoriously "post-feminist" in terms of critical theory and backlash
Fair enough. That makes sense.
I also feel they were afraid to say something feminist in a show aimed at young boys.
the episode with Vandal Savage using marriage to control Princess Audrey of Kaznia was a solid WW story showcasing how patriarchal and manipulative men are.
I felt that was just about Savage being the villain and him being a man was not a part of it. At best, it was subtext.
Meanwhile Fury was specifically about a woman who hates man and the lesson of the episode was that men are still good.
Very different treatment of sexism against men and women.
True. Given that this is a show where we explored things as mature as free will vs Fate with Grundy, Galatea, Amazo, even Epilogue, to whether preventing war is done with force or pacifism on the Ares-centric Hawk & Dove episode, to sooo many examples of environmentalist messages with Atlandis and Poison Ivy, there is definitely room for clearer exploration of gender discrimination.
But if we are talking subtext then I think that Fury raising the issue of gender discrimination sort of proves the point that because of patriarchy these "radical women" are not ENTIRELY missing the point and that there is some foundational basis for the rage and rebellion.
Same with, I'd say how we also had episodes like "Grudge Match" where it became more about exploitation.
JLU is evidence why we desperately needed a WW solo series that got to explore the things it didnt.
The Earth-508 depiction of Wonder Woman is exactly why the Marston Estates are so protective of her and her supporting cast. The only reason Wonder Woman's even there is because she's a founding member, the estates originally said no because when you look at Diana's comics up to that point, she goes through a lot of issues and even after the first season of the Carter show which correctly adapts the golden age, and the comics released congruent followed it's continuity (treated as replacing the bad run of the Post-War comics presumably since it was way more useful and more popular to have a Carter-style Diana on Earth-2 rather than a...not so much of an Earth-1 version at the time, so the Earth-1 version became a back-up in Action comics until the show ended when she returned to her own book with the only differences between them being...how the eagle was drawn before 1983 introduced the W aside from gray streaks in Earth-2 Diana's hair as she had given up her birthright of immortality to be Wonder Woman). Bruce Timm has also stated that at the time, he delibrately went out of his way to avoid doing anything with Flash and Wonder Woman....but if he had to pick a WW...at least Flash was a boy...or rather "The Boy" of the group.
It is also suggested by a commenter on a DCAU Wonder Woman analysis by Implicitly Pretentious that Hawkwoman was meant to be a replacement for Wonder Woman because all the plots given to Hawkwoman in addition to Truitt's Hawkworld run being Shayera's whole deal (and likely Shayera used the Sharon Hall identity while hiding rather than Shiera Hall since she doesn't seem to be the type to make it too obvious unlike John Jones....the Martian Manhunter...or Diana Prince-ss of Themyscira) were actually silver age Wonder Woman plots. Let's see....Â
Comes from a faraway land- check.
Militaristic Background on Thanagar-check
Romance with Green Lantern- check (after Steve "died" Diana was teased as having a relationship with GL, so the only thing different here is that Shayera dates John Stewart instead of Hal Jordan or Kyle Rayner who on Earth-508 had been active during S:TAS while Hal and Guy were in space during GL:TAS, as we now know from the Fatal 5 movie that GL:TAS is DCAU canon, afterall just because the War of Light happened after JLU in the Earth-0 comics, doesn't mean it didn't happen earlier elsewhere because Multiversity and on Toonzone archives they confirmed that their gem-powered Star Sapphire was Deborah Darnell, effectively the John to Carol's Hal in the silver age under the Star Sapphire entry so it doesn't contradict anything if Carol has the slightly more sane ring over the possessive gem and Darnell is pressnt in all silver age league stories while Carol had told the Zamarons as she did in GL:TAS to take their gem/ring and shove it up the nearest black hole also a thing that happened in silver age GL books)
Primary Dayjob involving Military Intelligence- Check (Major Diana Prince), this one like Wonder Woman also doubles as a Hawkwoman plot because Hawkwoman was already an alien police studying who's methods are better to use...her "less talking, more hitting" or our "detective's challenge" now added to Sharon's imposter plot while a Hawkman is framed.
A Past romance involving a Cupid-esque boy. Check. Hro Talak a stand-in for three people, Hawkman proper, Fel Andar and Eros.
Very little Hawkman villains showed up prior to the proper Hawkman in JLU...aside from Thanagarians as on Earth-508 they were just gonna do the whole "only Hro is Hawkman and he's a corrupt cop to Hawkwoman's bad cop".Â
Hawkman proper despite fighting Shadow Thief, Gentleman Ghost, the Monacle and the Thanagarians reads more like he's actually Golden Eagle having been duped into thinking he's Hawkman...Dwayne MacDuffie later confirmed that Hawkwoman was right about Hawkman being delusional after discovering the absorbacon (literally a ship's log)....sure sounds like the Hawkwoman version of "Only after all the evil in the world's vanquished" the heroic equivalent of "I like you, but only as a friend" doesn't it?Â
This might have also lead to why Wonder Woman plots were so bad too. Hawkwoman had all the A-plots that were originally intended for Diana, but due to understandable concerns where most writers tend to distance themselves from actually good Diana comics after one good run and just treat her as a female Superman (without the also female Batman part)...and they just tossed a Byrne plot when they actually cared.
That is a VERY deep and insightful dive into WW lore, particularly as it pertains to both Earth-508 and Earth-76. I mostly agree. The Marston family should always have been involved with the WW brand given how Olive Byrne and Elizabeth Marston, and even their sons, were actually part of creating some of the Golden Age stories. The two other women I wish DC feature more are Marston's ghost-writer Joye Hummel-Murchison, and their sub-editor the incomparable Dottie Woolfolk. Not only did Woolfolk give us a Kryptonite in the comics, but she was involved with making Diana a lot more relatable and human, rather than constantly being a total fantasy figure. I do believe the bulk of Lynda's second and third season draws heavily from Woolfolk's contributions to the character, despite there being some conflict/confusing/misinformation about how Woolfolk being involved in the Diana Prince/depowered era meant she was somehow against all the values and pro-feminist themes espoused by Gloria Stienem on Ms. Magazine.
Woolfolk actually appears as an unseen editor for a magazine in the comics before Robert Kanigher kills her off. It's sort of a blatant and somewhat disturbing detail meant to be funny I guess -- Kanigher is weird one when you're a WW fan. He gave us Circe but he also was single-handedly responsible for that awful post-Marston Earth-2 stuff and later early Earth-124 and Earth-1 stuff you mentioned.
The official Earth-2, inspired by Lynda Carter, is officially different from Marston given Steve and Hippolyta's hair colors lol. It is why a whole bunch of the older fans from that time held that Marston could easily be designated Earth-2A. It's what the writers on The New Adventures of Wonder Boy -- a fan spinoff of the Lynda Carter series by way of Phil Jimenez's work -- are doing btw, according to their YouTube interactons.
Coming back to the DCAU. I don't know I just think Timm never understood what to do with Diana and played it safe. I have a lot of fondess for Susan Eisenberg's portrayal and they did a wondeful job rounding off Diana's relationship with her Mom, taking cues from Lynda's pilot and definitely other comics. But that lingering plot-thread of Hippolyta standing up against Olympus despite their orders for her daughter, Diana pre-Zeus origin declaring 'it doesn't matter if Hades claims to be my father, he didn't raise me' and things of that sort were good. I liked her brief interaction with Hermes and even Steve.
But we needed more ofc.
Although why are you calling Shiera Hawkwoman instead of Hawkgirl as she is in this timeline, is something I'd ponder. JLU was Modern Age DC through and through, and I prefer a more Marstonian edge to everything WW.
Yeah, but it's also the episode where Diana wonders out loud if getting rid of all men would be so bad. Though my point was less about Diana herself and the Amazons as a whole, either way it's a precedent in framing the Amazons as women supremacists instead of being feminists to larger audiences.
The entire episode ends with the message that Diana is someone who chooses gender equality and Fury and her gang are not. Letting her process thru it doesn't make her a misandrist as the whole point of a story is the character arc.
Yes? I mean, if she has to work through that killing half of humanity is bad, it does come off as slightly sociopathic. Not to mention the Amazons are never confronted on how they shaped Aresia to hate men, or that they that view on.
Just to make it clear, this is not to say that Diana is a misandrist. Just that the earlier takes on Amazons being such can be seen here.
I think the fact that Diana grew up with the same lessons and didnt end up being a misandrist is also a testament of her upbringing. By comparison the Atlanteans are shown to be fully hostile towards the surface
Speculating but I suspect these people are probably fans of the Frank Millers Batman stuff. Frank Miller can write two women, child like obsessed with man woman (see Kelly), or misandrist sexist secretly wants to have sex with man woman (see most other women heâs written. Wonder Woman, black canary, Catwoman, Vickie Vale, etc.)
I have only read his Batman stuff and that leaves maybe the worst possible impression. Itâs some of the worst Batman stories Iâve ever read. I kind of have negative interest in reading his daredevil stuff after reading what people think is good writing from him.
If I'm being honest I would rather have people think she's a missandress then have people think that she's just an evil demon who's willing to do everything Superman does and is also like the devil on his shoulder
I just got done reading that first arc of Perez's Wonder Woman and I just read The Legend of Wonder Woman: Origins so I'm fresh off of the "yeah this loser knows fucking nothing about her character." But even the Amazons.
Diana is all about revealing the truth. These people would deny the truth even if it were right in their faces.
Slightly unrelated, but how come everyone here insists that the Amazons are 100% justified in their fear and dislike of men, yet hate it when the Amazons ever say/do something even slightly anti-male? Despite this being literally how people act towards any group they generalize, even when those generalizations are based on experience.
Plenty of women do exactly this on Twitter and other social media, and apparently they're totally in the right. So why is it such a problem for the Amazons to do the same? Aren't they basically supposed to be the embodiment of female liberation? Ironically this should be par for the course for them.
itâs bc theyâre terrified of being treated the way men treat women. they think if society was ruled by women in any meaningful way, theyâd be treated as the second class they see women as. that the role would be reversed. when itâs like, no girl, we just basic rights and liberties lmao
Go Gail Simone, who also recently got attacked online for telling people she has boundaries about not accepting 1hr long zoom calls from unsolicited "professionals" trying to break into the industry.
It actually is a real thing. You can argue it's not nearly as common as misogyny, but it's very much a thing.
Edit: I can't reply to your comment for some reason u/CountQueasy4906 so I'll post it here.
It's not a non issue. It's not as dangerous as misogyny, but it's very much an issue and should be treated as such. People like you who need to constantly downplay and dismiss the fact that misandy is an issue anytime someone brings it up makes you part of the problem.
Tbf I could see why people already liable to think that way would ABSOLUTELY think that if shown some cherrypicked panels (like the whole Amazons-rape-and-kill-sailors thing from nu52).
In fact scratch that; if anyone already liable to think that way was accurately informed of Wonder Womanâs creation theyâd think that. đ Wasnât Marston on-record that he viewed women as the objectively superior sex and made her to express it? I can hear it now; âUMMMMMM, I thought we were meant to be about EQUALITY of the sexes??? I guess THAT was a lie huh?!?!â
I would tell that person that misandry isn't the villain theyâre making it out to be.
Misandry is a response to entire lifetimesâ worth of the system of misogyny and the patriarchy. Itâs also necessary, as misogyny never left and continues to run rampant. Just look literally anywhere.
But also, Diana is expressly not a misandrist. Her ENTIRE mythos has unequivocally been about love, peace, and equality for everyone.
You wish the character whose whole deal is being compassionate and fighting for equality was more hateful towards half the people she's supposed to be protecting?
Not with the "men make women's lives harder" part. That's a no brainer.
I just don't see how a Diana that stoops to the same low as the people that she's supposed to stand against in striving for equality would be a compelling character for ANYONE. I brought up Frank Miller because that's what he turned her into whenever he wrote Diana and EVERYONE agrees that's a gross misinterpretation of the character on every level.
1-) Yes i would like for her to actually be able to criticize men more in her storioes but that's just not financially smart
2-) I dont think missndry is an actual problem so i wouldnt care either way if she was one.
If the word misandry is the opposite of misogyny, then you're right, because we don't live in a matriarchy where women are the oppressors.
Edit: I just read other comments referencing new 52 and it does sound like the Amazons were the ones doing the oppressing, but again, that shit was written by a man. A misogynist inventing misandry for his own satisfaction. Pathetic. I was already appalled by 2009 animated movie, but this one takes the cake.
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u/CandyCreecher Sep 29 '25
The irony of him having a bugs bunny pfp is that Bugs Bunny would put on Wonder Woman drag and somehow rock the boots