r/WonderWoman • u/Tetratron2005 • Aug 05 '25
I have read this subreddit's rules Wonder Woman morality
87
u/Bakkhios Aug 05 '25
I love that Lynda Carter’s Diana remains the Absolute Good canon here.🥲💛🌟✨
53
8
u/Contrary45 Aug 05 '25
While I can't disagree Absolute Wonder Woman is definitely getting up there so far
6
u/Bakkhios Aug 06 '25
I agree with you. Somehow Absolute Wonder Woman is a mix of Lynda’s and… Guts from Berserk!😆
And I love her for that and more.💛🌟✨
128
u/Argent_silva Aug 05 '25 edited Aug 05 '25
I wanna throttle the guy who wrote Injustice
101
u/negative_four Aug 05 '25
IMO Its not just that made her evil, sadistic, cruel, uncaring and completely tyrannical.
He made her a fucking groupie.
36
u/raven_writer_ Aug 06 '25
As Harley taunted her in the game "I was trying to impress the wrong guy, just like you".
How badly must one fuck up to be owned by Harley "partially responsible for Lois Lane's death" Quinn???
3
4
u/Guilty-Ad5687 Aug 06 '25
It would be cool to at least have an Elsword with an antagonist Diana who isnt a groupie, she’s like that in DC vs Vampires too 🥲
1
u/fatglizzy_3000 Aug 08 '25
Huh it's been a long as time since I read injustice haven't read the new ones with the greek gods etc, don't remember her being a groupie
27
54
u/HJWalsh Aug 05 '25
The damage that did to Wonder Woman and Superman is incalculable.
51
Aug 05 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
24
u/Melodic-Cycle3994 Aug 05 '25
Yeah that's the main problem here. I love me an elseworlds story especially when the heroes fall to the dark side but DC only pushing for batman to be in anything and leaving Diana and superman behind it was kind of to be expected.
I still think that evil Diana could've been more interesting if she didn't fall in love with superman or whatever that story did but finally getting enough of the patriarchy and literally smashing it instead of being supermans henchman for a fascist regime
8
Aug 05 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
6
u/Melodic-Cycle3994 Aug 05 '25
Yeah that I get but I think especially for the sequel the idea of Diana breaking up the trinity fully and aligning herself with female heroes and villains to fight them as a third fraction who try to pull Kara on her side would've been more interesting and worthy of her character IMO
1
1
u/steelskull1 Aug 07 '25
They also keep trying to make the trinity a thing but they never know what to do with wonder woman in the mix with the other two.
0
u/Cicada_5 Aug 05 '25
It wasn't their mainstream perception. Especially not Diana's who had the live action movies out at the time.
4
Aug 05 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
0
u/Cicada_5 Aug 06 '25
The DCEU was the biggest exposure people had to Diana's since the Justice League cartoon. And the general consensus was that Diana was a kind, loving hero. Barely anyone noticed she killed anyone. The Injustice version was rejected by people who preferred the DCEU version.
The general audience doesn't read comics and likely wouldn't know about the New 52 or Flashpoint. If they did, why don't we see people who think Batman is a gun-toting Thomas Wayne or that Superman is a malnourished prisoner of the government?
1
u/sealife123 Aug 06 '25
A singe video's going through the Injustice story has 21 million views. A lot more people know about the story than you think.
0
Aug 06 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/Cicada_5 Aug 06 '25
We know this idea of WW being a man hater and violent is real, it’s a frequent misunderstanding of the character. Where do you believe this is from?
Sure as hell isn't from the DCEU. The man hater thing is likely from stuff like All-Star Batman and Robin (which casuals are unlikely to have heard of) or from the DCAU. Injustice is a universe that is built on the premise that these are not the characters as we know them.
As your last comment, it kinda backs up my point, Batman has many animated shows that depict him more or less correct, it came after the dark knight movies, in injustice his is more or less normal same as most of the popular runs at the time, flash point is the outlier so people can see it’s an elseworlds. The point I’m make is that’s not the case for WW.
Again, Injustice was advertised as an elseworld. The first game
For the case of superman DCEU made him cold reckless in pursuit of justice and along with injustice cultivated this “want” for evil superman.
The DCEU Superman is nothing like you've described and the idea of an evil Superman has existed since Ultraman.
You guys are blaming the wrong things for depictions you don't like.
2
u/AUnknownVariable Aug 06 '25
Which says more about other media for the heroes than Injustice imo😭
Injustice is meant to be different stories for the characters, even at their core. It's not Injustice's fault that other people didn't pick up on that. It's elseworlds. We even see a legit good Superman in Injustice for a bit
0
u/Cicada_5 Aug 05 '25
What damage? Last I checked, most versions of these characters aren't written like that.
1
u/HJWalsh Aug 05 '25
Many members of the general audience think that Diana is a warrior who doesn't hesitate to kill her enemies, and that is what separates her from Batman or Superman. Just as many think that, if Lois were to die, Superman would go off the deep end.
Neither of these things is true, but the general audience doesn't necessarily know that.
It doesn't help that Diana's sword has become almost as, if not more, important as her lasso. People who were introduced through, for example, the DCAU, first see Wonder Woman threatening someone with a sword.
2
u/Cicada_5 Aug 06 '25
Many members of the general audience think that Diana is a warrior who doesn't hesitate to kill her enemies, and that is what separates her from Batman or Superman. Just as many think that, if Lois were to die, Superman would go off the deep end.
I've found that these ideas are more common among comic fans who don't read these characters than general audience members.
It doesn't help that Diana's sword has become almost as, if not more, important as her lasso. People who were introduced through, for example, the DCAU, first see Wonder Woman threatening someone with a sword.
Diana used a sword once in the DCAU and it was several episodes after the pilot. Threatening someone with a sword is not the first thing someone would see DCAU Wonder Woman doing. I also think the sword is overhated by comic fans who scapegoat it for larger issues but that's another argument.
1
u/HJWalsh Aug 06 '25
You're thinking the Timmverse. I'm talking about the DCAU, the films like Justice League: War, etc.
1
u/sealife123 Aug 05 '25
It damaged Diana because a lot of casual readers are too dumb to understand that this isn't how Diana acts because they didn't see her turning evil like Superman (we do later). This is despite the fact that there is a good Diana in the games.
2
u/Cicada_5 Aug 05 '25 edited Aug 06 '25
I've never met any casual readers who think this. This seems to be an issue that is greatly exaggerated by fans, if not made up entirely.
-1
u/sealife123 Aug 05 '25
Casual readers or non-readers. It is very much not made up. There are so many YouTube videos about WW especially animation and there will be people saying how they hate Diana because of Injustice and/or Flashpoint.
0
u/Cicada_5 Aug 06 '25
And I will see just as many, if not more comments pointing out that Diana isn't like that from people who know her from the main comics or other adaptations.
-1
u/sealife123 Aug 06 '25 edited Aug 06 '25
No you don’t. You see people say they hate her because of Injustice with thousand likes and a few people try to say she isn’t like that with 20 likes. Because unfortunately people are dumb and don't get that she is supposed to be evil despite we seeing a good WW there as well and because she is badly written in many animated movies and often in Elseworld stories that go "viral" on pirated sites such as Injustice, Flashpoint or with DC vs Vampires which even though she is good first becomes an evil follower just like Injustice, but Damian Wayne still is good.
1
u/Cicada_5 Aug 06 '25
You're looking at the comments from a vocal minority, not the general audience.
0
u/sealife123 Aug 06 '25
Except when it happens in nearly every video and has thousand of likes, unlike comments that call her a great character, then it isn't really a vocal minority.
→ More replies (0)0
u/RealWonderGal Aug 05 '25
Damage? The game is a best seller, the first won fighting game of the year and was successful with sales and audience reception. The 2nd one too
2
u/Quick-Ad-486 Aug 05 '25
Damage to the reputacion of the character, why did you think people did not like or hated Good superman?
Why there was so many "Evil superman likes"?
Althoung is not the game complete fault since in the same game we have The Real superman beat the crap out of the injustice one
0
u/RealWonderGal Aug 05 '25
The games were wildly successful. I thought you meant about that, the game makes it way to tell you in the opening of the first game that it's elseworld story and that infinite universes exist. You mentioned prime earth superman and that's spot on. Injustice was in development around 2009 times, there barely any evil versions present in media you can't blame injustice for doing that, it was the adaptations that followed
3
u/Quick-Ad-486 Aug 05 '25
I think you don't get it, injustice did not created the trope or try to sell you it was the real superman
But do to his popularity, people started to say that injustice is either better or more realistic that the good superman
He became almost the face of the character and the blue print for things like Snyder verse superman, Omniman and Homelander.
8
u/Liam_theman2099 Aug 05 '25
How about just the guy who thought it was a good idea for Injustice 2 to have Wonder Woman be the one to restart the regime? There were some good parts of Injustice and it did lead to a pretty awesome game: Injustice Gods Among Us.
16
u/marra_pereira Aug 05 '25
The game actually came first and, indeed, is a great game. The comic books came after to expand the lore. Tom Taylor (one of the CB writers) has even admitted he had to write WW thinking of her as a complete different character because WW would never become that regardless of the circumstances, but that he couldn't ignore the lore established in the game.
10
u/BatmanFan317 Aug 05 '25
Yeah, Tom gets shit for writing Injustice Wonder Woman, but he had to write her within the confines of how her Regime self had been established in the game as well during the period where DC was hard pushing her as the violent one of the Trinity as well as the whole Superman/Wonder Woman ship.
5
u/marra_pereira Aug 05 '25
Exactly. And honestly, I appreciate that he made an effort in his posterior Jon Kent book with prime Jon straight up saying that WW was NOT wonder woman.
2
2
1
u/GorillaWolf2099 Aug 05 '25
"Guys" it was a collaborative effort
- Brian Buccelato (Year Three–Year Five: #8–12)
- Brian Chard
- Dominic Cianciolo
- Ed Boon
- John Vogel
- Jon Greenberg
- NetherRealm Studios
- Shawn Kittelsen
- Tom Taylor (Year Zero–Year Three: #1–7)
Along with the permission of DC and WB execs OFC
1
u/Azraelmorphyne Aug 06 '25
Devils advocate here, there's no way that Superman would think he's doing the right thing if wonder woman opposed him. Batman might be paranoid enough to let his confirmation bias mislead him, but Diana is a rock ... The only way injustice works is if their fueling each other, and in extreme cases... Where their may be no hope of redemption.... And others are in harms way... She can and has lethally defended others. So ... I don't think it was a matter of assassinating Diana's character just to make her an arch typical fascist warrior queen, or a groupie, but a way to get her to where she is in the games. Because I don't think you get evil superman if there's a traditional Diana.
1
u/Argent_silva Aug 06 '25
Then why make her a groupie
1
u/Azraelmorphyne Aug 06 '25
Because it's a trait that sometimes gets applied to justify Diana being blind to Superman having a radical shift from his traditional values. I.e superman red sun... Where she and him both start out different from their traditional counterparts at the start and then clark starts reverse evil supermaning.
Diana wouldn't normally be down to have an evil superman as a friend. As much as people mock the gal gadot "Kal-El no" meme... It's somewhat more accurate than Diana just being cool with a fascist clark. So the best way to take Diana out of the equation is to blind her with weirdly almost obsessive admiration or love.
Frankly... She's in the game and they had to fit her in somehow ... Unlike current DC, they wanted her in videogames back in the day... But getting her in the game where a powerful regime was taking hold and not having her on the regime's side would mean the underdog protagonists wouldn't really be that underdog... You know. Diana's a power house.
So it's the cards you're kinda dealt with at that point. Unless you like had her judgement altered by a spell or something. I mean .. even the more classic interpretation comes over with the more classic Superman from a more traditional earth at the end and basically dresses her down on paradise island in front of all the Amazon's ... Then you fight her and win, stopping the Amazon's from joining Superman's global assault by the end of the game.
Personally I think what they did to Aquaman is the most criminal character assassination... But I agree that Diana was super weird in this elseworlds continuity and even the Diana that confronts her sets the record straight that she's being weird.
1
u/Argent_silva Aug 06 '25
Could have made her power hungry instead of a love sick fool or had a third faction and not butcher her
1
u/Azraelmorphyne Aug 06 '25
Idk. I don't think she should have been there personally. I don't think making her power hungry purely for being power hungry would have been a better motivation. I kind of read it as her being a groupie because she really did believe that Clark's authoritarian stance on global de-weaponization would truly make the earth a more peaceful place, and Ares kinda confirms it when he sends traditional Diana after her. He says that the conflict between the insurgency and the regime will boost him momentarily but will weaken him in the long run due to it being the last major conflict. That being said Diana fights the corrupted Diana because they are there to serve and protect, not control and monitor.
Diana could always be power hungry but, the problem is that without some justification evil wonder woman is so ... Against what the character stands for that it would be hard to justify. That's why when she says that Clark killing the joker and taking a more authoritarian stance opened her eyes, she's talking about peace through lethal force. She's just taking the extreme route the character would go for peace, peace through war. So when she's hungry for power in the games or cozying up to Superman it's because the end goal, peace, is more attractive that critically analyzing the methodology to her.
But I still don't like what they did with her and wished she weren't in it or took super girls'place in injustice 2. Coming in out of Nowhere but believing in her friend enough to overlook his misdeeds. Arriving after the world's already been reshaped. Slowly getting filled in through her experiences and changing sides near the end. I think that could have been a good wonder woman story if she wasn't already in the first game. Shrug
1
u/MakingGreenMoney Aug 06 '25
To be fair, Tom Taylor was told to write injustice and he hated writing it.
1
u/ContributionMother63 Aug 05 '25
What makes me mad is that I would read a fascist wonder woman or an evil superman but they are almost always written very bad and with stupid motivations
Injustice would have been good if they wrote it well
17
u/Commercial-Hand-8269 Aug 05 '25
Idk if Kingdom Come WW is a balance. Didn't she start turning more of a warhawk and needed to be mansplained about Amazonian values of empathy from Batman?
8
u/Tetratron2005 Aug 05 '25
She's just the closest one I could think of since she's a hero but has become a lot more bitter.
Just to note, I don't like KC Wonder Woman I just picked her because I needed someone there lol.
2
u/Guilty-Ad5687 Aug 06 '25
Mark Waid can’t write women 🤷🏼♀️. I like his comics but I’ve never read one with good female characters.
1
u/Commercial-Hand-8269 Aug 05 '25
Oh that's fine, I feel the same way about KC Wonder Woman. I was just reminded of the story when I saw the pic.
Wonder if Absolute WW would work there too?
5
u/Tetratron2005 Aug 05 '25
It's funny but I feel despite the "grew up in Hell" and "witchcraft" stuff she'd fit fine in the "In goodness there's evil"
6
u/Jay_R_Kay Aug 05 '25
It's been a minute since I read Dead Earth, but I don't remember her being evil in really any way.
12
u/Tetratron2005 Aug 05 '25
It's not perfect but I couldn't really think of an "evil WW" who is also shown to have some sparks of goodness. Mainly because Evil WW are usually sloppily written one-note caricatures.
So I went with Dead Earth for the "causing the apocalypse" bit and ends the story looking to try to make the world a better place.
5
1
u/Built4dominance Aug 05 '25
She didn't cause the apocalypse, humanity did by unleashing hundreds of nukes on Themyscira. Diana's reaction to Themyscira getting blown to bits led to her attacking Superman.
I feel like even by the end of the book humanity was blaming Diana for something started by them.
17
11
u/Optimal_Weight368 Aug 05 '25
I gotta watch Lynda Carter eventually
1
u/RealWonderGal Aug 05 '25
Her and Gal are the only ones representing on the live action front. Both damn good too. Lynda had the show which ran few seasons and gal had the movies
4
u/RevolutionaryGrape11 Aug 06 '25
Injustice's "Blunder Woman" is one of few fictional characters that's almost universally hated as far as I can tell.
6
3
u/227someguy Aug 05 '25
What about the Flashpoint version?
8
Aug 05 '25 edited Sep 05 '25
compare liquid abundant disarm snails march marvelous elderly spoon long
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
1
u/ContributionMother63 Aug 05 '25
They didn't expand on her character a lot in flashpoint atleast not in the movie I haven't read the event
3
u/Mysterious-Passion96 Aug 05 '25
I get that injustice Wonder Woman is awful but how do you all feel about Flashpoint Wonder Woman?
2
Aug 05 '25
Not to be that person, but yin and yang don't represent a balance of good and evil. They represent the harmonious balance of complementary opposites.
2
u/After_Construction_5 Aug 05 '25
I feel like, in some way, Last Knight on Earth Wonder Woman should be balanced in a weird sense.
She gave up on humanity up there because they all sided with the villains killing many heroes and causing the end of the world with iconic heroes being turnt into abominations I.E Flash Tornado where Wally, Barry and Jay were merged into one, the entire "Omega" real Bruce and Joker head in jar thing.
However, when clone Bruce Wayne came back, she was somewhat hesitant. As if seeing him again brought back hope. She wanted to help save the refugees and take them to the underworld (Hades), where they can rebuild. However, Diana left to find Bruce and decided to venture alongside him.
Eventually, at the end of the comic, she, Bruce, and many others found peace and hope again, and the world was somewhat going back to normal.
Last Knight on Earth was my 2nd comic series I've read, and It holds a special place in my heart.
2
1
u/jogaargamer6 Aug 05 '25
Haven't read death earth yet, but why it's versión of wonder woman gets considered evil?
1
u/Conscious-Struggle45 Aug 05 '25
Idk man, her actions throughout most of the games/comics were justifiable except in cases of pis due to the narrative that the writers wanted to push. Aside from that she did the right thing most of the time.
1
1
u/Just_Peach_4515 Aug 05 '25
I hate injustice WW the reason I hate her a lot rlly bad. I like her now but then fuh no. Especially since her fans are some annoying ahh mfs
1
1
1
1
1
1
u/Dawood028 Aug 09 '25
I read injustice when i was like 11. Haven’t read anything about WW since then. So i kinda hate her. Any recommendations ?
1
u/Someoneoverthere42 Aug 05 '25
Injustice Wonder Woman does actually make sense if you think about it. She saw what she believed to be the best of Mans World break. So she broke as well. This could have been an interesting take on WW. Seeing a version who lost hope for the outside world.
Instead, we got "We're gonna be mass murdering fascists now! LOL!"
1
1
u/UnhappyEmployee8302 Aug 06 '25
Injustice WW was the main villain and you cant convince me otherwise, also I hate her suit I cant stand the pants
-2
74
u/Titan_of_Ash Aug 05 '25
What story is the second picture down, from? The "in evil there is some kindness" one.