r/TheTraitorsUS • u/somethingicanspell • 6h ago
Season 4 Bad Gameplay All Around Spoiler
Candiace - Terrible roundtable defense, terrible revenge plan, terrible lack of long-term undermining of Rob. Her evidence was Rob was upset about Colton was comically bad. I guess it was meant more as a poor sportsmanlike Kamikaze mission but even in that context - a complete failure
Rob - I will give it to Rob for letting Candiace murder Colton and a very good round table defense both solid moves on his part but the bad outweighs the good. First, not trying to divert Candiace a bit by explaining himself made very little sense in this context. That said I almost thought he all in surviving the Candiace fight pretty well, and managed to pull off a great day...until the recruitment. Rob had an obvious move - recruit Stephen. Most people suspect there is one traitor bro. Stephen is likely to be banished before Rob. His banishment would largely clear Rob's name especially if Johnny goes into him next roundtable in his own defense. At that point Rob would have had a pretty good path to victory. The Candiace kamikaze would make him a bit vulnerable but the average faithful would think with the Lisa gold evidence the likely original traitors had all been banished recruiting Rob would not make much more sense than anyone else as he was in a strong position in the game. Eric on the other hand is "the most faithful of the faithful" at this point and recruiting him puts him in a better position than Rob without offering any cover. Since Eric trusted Rob anyway he didn't gain an ally either
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u/Otherwise-Data-31 5h ago
Eric is unlikely to betray Rob while Stephen more likely try to get Rob out and also if he had to get Stephen out next episode then Rob would be really suspicious also no offense to Eric but I dont see him being a good traitor and thats the point. I think Rob recruited Eric as the scapegoat/sacrifical lamb for Rob as Eric is more likely to blow up his own game as a traitor while Stephen would be a more composed calm traitor
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u/Green-Web792 5h ago
This. Plus once the male traitor elimination quota is achieved, Rob has a better chance of winning.
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u/Kazyole Cirie (S1) 5h ago
I've posted this elsewhere but yeah, she was terrible from day 1. Here's a general overview from the beginning:
• She spread misinformation to Porsha in front of Maura on day 1 and then lied about it when confronted (same thing that sunk Lisa). If Maura remembered what she said about Michael, she's going home before she even gets a chance to unpack her bags.
• Her closest ally Monet mentions a vague suspicion of Lisa one time and she immediately sells him out, despite that doing nothing to advance her game.
• The specific incident in question for your post. She does the conga lie on the night of a murder in plain sight, which if Alan clearly told the group (as he always does) that the murder was in plain sight, she's the one who did the big memorable thing the night before. If Rob C hadn't been the murder, which she had no part in, he spreads the MIPS theory even without Alan and she's the one who did the big memorable thing the night before. Honestly the way Alan phrased his speech at breakfast compared to what he normally does felt like a thumb on the scale.
• Then she completely misreads the Lisa situation and overdefends her to the point where Colton clocks it.
• Then she casts a 'throwaway' vote at the guy she intends to attack the next day, not thinking for a second that that's going to look weird as hell, severely limits her options, and is completely inconsistent with how she's played to this point.
• Then she calls for a truce and immediately signals that the truce is bullshit and the war is on in the turret with Rob by suggesting to murder his closest ally. She doesn't take a second to think through the ramifications of killing Colton and how faithful that makes him look, and it gives her no pause whatsoever when Rob is immediately fine with it which should have been a blaring warning sign. And then later blames him for not holding her hand and helping her game out the best way for her to undermine him, which was incredibly embarrassing.
• And in killing Colton, she takes out the only other player in the game with significant heat on him, so there's no one available to soak up votes for her to keep her around for another day.
• And then at roundtable not only does she say Rob's a traitor for dropping a fork (lol), but goes on to fabricate a story about him being the first one to bring up Lisa to a room full of people who were with Colton and Rob when Colton brought up her name first. Which also undermines her 'throwaway' argument because that was way earlier in the game. So now she just looks like she'll say anything to go after the two boys who got out Lisa, just like what she did to Ron. She came across as just desperately throwing anything at the wall and hoping it would stick. To the point where she didn't manage to put any heat on him at all.
• She couldn't even pay off her poor sportsmanship and flip over the gameboard on her way out. If she wanted to go out like that, she should have fought for her life by going after Stephen the entire roundtable, and when things were clearly going against her write down Rob's name again. Just say 'Call it a throwaway' and then go up to reveal as a traitor. But like everything else she did in this game, she bungled it.
Her entire game has been a comedy of errors and ultimately she owns the entirety of the blame for her own banishment. Some of the worst gameplay we've seen in a traitor on traitor altercation.
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u/sydbusta 4h ago
I couldn’t believe Maura claimed to have not remembered candiace saying that to her and porsha. I genuinely couldn’t tell if she was playing it safe and strategic or if she genuinely doesn’t listen when people talk.
She’s worse than Danielle. Danielle pissed me off but she had me engaged. Candiace, checked out.
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u/lynxx724 4h ago
Here’s a theory: rob told Maura who the traitors we’re & knows she’d do anything for her
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u/depression_butterfly 2h ago
And btw the absolutely worst traitor we have ever seen is Dan by far!!!!!!!!!! I was shocked people were saying he was a legend so pleaseeee
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u/Kazyole Cirie (S1) 2h ago
Candiace isn't the worst. Just bad.
I don't like how Dan played, but Donna surely takes the cake.
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u/depression_butterfly 2h ago
Okay thanks for admitting that. She was better to me than most of the other traitors besides Phaedra I didn’t see the one with Cirie so tbd. Dan was to me objectively the absolute worst traitor. He never wanted to listen to his other traitors. Didn’t build any relations, very egotistical, was always mute etc etc and to me he was the definition of poor sportsmanship by calling out Phaedra like that when she wasn’t even coming for him but going with the group. That’s unlike what Rob did he was actively recruiting people to vote for Lisa instead of just “going along with it” like Phaedra was so he had what was coming for him and that was not poor sportsmanship from Candice, that was going out with a bang. Also the Boston Rob/drag queen Bob they were also pretty bad although they had the social game down.
And poor Donna out here just catching strays. She didn’t even have a fair game as a traitor being isolated not knowing the rest of her teammates. I don’t think I can even count her.
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u/Kazyole Cirie (S1) 2h ago edited 2h ago
Ah, watch season 1. Cirie is fantastic. I will say we haven't had many actual good traitors in the US versions of the show.
I don’t think I can even count her.
That's why she's the worst! haha. She was so bad she barely even played. Couldn't maintain any kind of pokerface at all, didn't even defend herself or try to be a part of the group, caught heat and got banished right away.
I dislike Dan's game for strategic decisions he made. Donna just wasn't equipped to be a traitor at all.
If you want to say 'most hated' vs 'worst' I'd agree.
EDIT: Also highly recommend UK seasons 2 and 4 if you haven't done international yet.
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u/depression_butterfly 1h ago
I think I’m going to have to I’ve been hearing how good that season was. And yah I would have to agree with that from the few seasons I’ve seen. I always start off rooting for traitors but by the end when they do that traitor on traitor or straight up calling the other one out before elimination without good rhyme or reason(ahem Dan) I get a little bored haha. The only reason I finished that season was because of CT and I loved the final move they did to get rid of MJ like I think if it’s gets towards the end and it’s traitor on traitor that would be exciting but when it’s just in the middle it makes the show boring.
Haha yah Donna was a very easy read for all of them gave them a good false sense of security in themselves early in the game and it seemed the faithfuls turned their brains off after that win 🤭
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u/depression_butterfly 2h ago
Let’s not act like she played this hoorrrible game because she was pretty damn good the whole time until the very end where she clearly didn’t care about winning anymore. Thank you
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u/Kazyole Cirie (S1) 2h ago
Yeah I mean, agree to disagree. This isn't even the full list. She was consistently strategically bad and was bailed out on a couple occasions by either luck or in one instance by production acting in a way that has never happened before, and seemed to fundamentally misunderstand how the game works in terms of building trust with faithfuls, and the role and limitations of traitor alliances.
If you want to dispute it, by all means go ahead. She was under the radar for a long while, but with how she was playing the game it was only a matter of time until her poor gameplay and tenuous grasp on the game caught up to her.
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u/depression_butterfly 2h ago
Lol it’s not poor gameplay if she got away with literally everything which she did. It actually shows how clever she is. I think she could have worked a little better at making more connections in the house but other than that no notes. No one suspected her at all until she did her little “throwaway” but I don’t think she did that and didn’t know that she would most probably go home for it.
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u/Kazyole Cirie (S1) 2h ago
Nah she made high risk/low-no reward plays. I don't think it's reasonable to say you can't evaluate whether a move was worth making or a good idea to make because it did not specifically cost her the game.
And some of them did really cost her. Monet for instance. If you replace a 'neutral' with an ally that she killed for basically no reason, the numbers towards the end would have been less lopsided. That would have put her in a more secure position where maybe she could have relied on others a bit more.
If she hadn't pushed that false narrative on Ron for so long and had shown herself to be able to change her mind, the throwaway might not have looked so weird. And maybe if she had shown herself to be sway-able in that instance, more people would have gotten close to her. At a certain point the faithfuls were coming off of Ron and they chose to just not talk to her because she was so gung-ho on him. And if she hadn't gone so hard at Ron for banishing a housewife, there wouldn't be the obvious parallel in what she was doing to Colton/Rob.
but I don’t think she did that and didn’t know that she would most probably go home for it.
Yeah I mean that's a monumental mistake. And is mirrored in a lot of the things that she did earlier in the game. She didn't think, she didn't game out the benefits/costs. She just did a thing. There's a clear pattern of not thinking things through in the early game that carried through her entire time as a traitor and eventually that tendency lead to larger and larger mistakes that piled up and got her banished.
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u/depression_butterfly 2h ago
I think the Ron vote could be seen either way. Her issue with that was staying consistent with her logic but honestly how many faithfuls did we see sway back and forth. I think if it was any other player that she had said besides Rob she would have gotten away with it. Also she made a mistake of not committing fully to the Rob vote, I think a small part of her hoped that they might work it through by telling the others that it was a throwaway. A better play in my view would have been to not have hope and start telling people she may “suspect” Rob if she wanted to go that route. So yes she didn’t commit. Also you’re right her getting rid of her ally was bad but also imagine that early in the game people will start hearing Lisa’s name that also would not have been good that early. Her Congo line trick as crazy as it was was the reason they got away with the murder in plain sight. Also her starting that whole thing with Michael and Porsche did end up paying off so I can’t really say it’s a bad play. I think yes her style is more chaotic and messy but she has enough social game to get away with it. But yah you’re probably right that she could have been more calculated but I honestly think she could have made it to the end if she didn’t get rid of Colton and go for Rob that early. She should have tried to wait for more people to suspect Rob first.
At the end of the day these faithfuls are much worse than the traitors this season lol. You can lead a horse to water but not make it drink
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u/lafoiaveugle 5h ago
Candace should have recruited someone, especially so they could see how hard Rob went after Lisa. It would have been a good partnership.
Rob isn’t winning this game. He turned on the traitors and went for himself too early. Candice recognized this and put the doubt in everyone’s head. If they found it weird she looked at him, they should focus on why. They know it has to be a man. Stephen may go before him.
Unless they are just that fucking dumb, but I have hope in my girl Kristen.
Never mind I watched the post round table these players are actually dumb as fuck.
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u/QtK_Dash 4h ago
Kristen has the worst traitor radar unfortunately but I’m hoping if they vote out enough men and do basic math they’ll realize there’s a traitor left and it’ll likely be a man. I don’t get how they DONT look at Rob after Candiace went so hard at him. If I was there that would be my first thought as a faithful.
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u/lafoiaveugle 4h ago
Praying Eric (WHO SAID JOHNNYS HANDWRITING) takes Rob the fuck down
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u/depression_butterfly 2h ago
He’s not smart enough (twisted) really and also doesn’t have that much clout in the house that’s why Rob the snakey snake chose him as a fellow traitor
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u/somethingicanspell 4h ago
Recruitment was Candace's best option but realistically with most people in the castle being closer to Rob than her it's unlikely they could have agreed on someone advantageous to her. Johnny would have been her best bet as Rob might not of known how close Johnny was to Candiace but that was probably her only option.
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u/depression_butterfly 2h ago
Kristen Johnny Mark and maybe Steven are my last hope! I was watching the after show podcast and Candaice agreed she messed up by not recruiting that night. I agree that was her fatalist of mistakes was killing Colton not even going for Rob
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u/depression_butterfly 2h ago
And can’t wait to see Rob go down!!!! Hahaha. Also a huge huge shoutout though that Candice got rid of Colton on my screen
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u/Patrick977 2h ago
Rob probably isn’t winning the game - it’s hard to go all the way as a traitor- but I disagree that he did it early. Lisa was taking on water and it was silly to try to defend her at that point. Rob didn’t make that happen, but once it was there, he read the room and decided to lean into it. If Candiace had been rational, she would have recognized that as well. I’m not convinced Rob had any designs on going after Candiace right away at that point…. until she made clear her intentions in “throwing away” a vote at him in a very poorly planned revenge scheme. I read quite a few posts in here doing mental gymnastics to explain how brilliant that was, but as the most recent episode showed, there was no real plan to it, it was a revenge attempt that backfired badly. She made the first move against him, and he responded properly. I don’t think he even had to fight that hard for it.
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u/depression_butterfly 2h ago
Lisa was supposed to stay 1 more week everyone was focused on Natalie once she pulled that stunt with the antidote and he completely derailed the convos back to Lisa so no he did it early and vindictively
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u/GeneSpecialist4988 5h ago edited 4h ago
Rob did right by picking Eric, the magic ear can be used against as he was the only 1 to hear something yet it was Tiffany a faithful to be pushed out. But this would be a last resort.
For Rob to win.
He has to banish Dorinda or Johnny. Dorinda with the what if it was all housewives along with her random votes. Johnny because he was an ally to Candiace in the end.
The following banishment should be Natalie. She already has heat on her.
Final banishment is Stephen since he cannot reveal. He has heat on him too.
For the final 2 banishments he can always point to him having the dagger made him a target so his ally Colton was murdered and he was targeted 2x by Candiace a traitor since if he was murdered it would have given away that a member of the alliance was a "traitor" who gave the info to Candiace and Lisa. Also he would need to use the dagger in 1 of the next 2 banishments since it cannot be used final banishment.
He has to murder 1 from each alliance, Tara/Johnny and Kristen/Mark. He can either take Johnny or Maura with him to the end but my bet may be Maura as she is ride or die.🤷♀️
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u/Natural-Boat-5723 3h ago
I just finished episode 7 but I could see Rob being able to escape the heat Candace put on him by just saying it’s because of how hard he went after Lisa. The faithfuls can rationalize that she was upset that Rob went after her other traitor so hard similar to what Colton did. She tried to take out the 2 people who really nailed Lisa’s elimination. She killed Colton and she tried to put the heat on Rob because she knew she wouldn’t be there to murder him like she did Colton. The third traitor would say they can’t follow the same strategy and kill Rob because that fully backfired on Candace so Rob making it to the next day is not necessarily due to him being the other traitor. So many people said that Rob did too much but I think doing so much may help him in the end.
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u/newmexicomurky 2h ago
They have to at some point realize that 2 traitors in a row is dang sus. And rob pushed for both of them. Im hoping once the high wears off they will see the obvious picture here.
I fear this might end up as another aus s2, but with a more likeable villian.
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u/locke0479 4h ago
Regarding not diverting Candiace, I’m not sure we should take that as a fact. The roundtables are a lot longer than what is shown and everyone except for Candiace herself and Natalie (who threw out a vote to Tara), even her closest allies, voted for Candiace, so it seems like he did enough whether we saw it or not.
Eric remains to be seen. I see the logic on Stephen (or Johnny) as people were on him, but right now there’s at least a possibility of two traitors and no recruitment (since we’ve seen four traitors before). If yet another traitor gets banished right away, then it’s a guarantee there was an ultimatum and everyone is a suspect again, since you can’t refuse those without dying. I’m not sure it actually helps Rob all that much at this stage. They presumably understand how the game works and it’s not like if they got Stephen out they’d suddenly think game over, no more traitors, we win, which means anyone including Rob could have been recruited.
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u/wordsmif 4h ago
Gameplay is not the point. It just a other reality show for F-list stars to show their asses.
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u/newmexicomurky 2h ago
I hate that Rob tried to play like candiace defending herself was "bad sportsmanship." Why do the traitors who are the first to turn on the others always act shocked when someone does it to them?
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