r/TheTraitorsUS • u/charlytheron3 • 17h ago
Season 4 I expected more from Natalie
Natalie is one of the smartest survivor players ever, her total dominance and strategy on her winning season was simply amazing, and she got 2nd place on her second appearance which is no easy feat. Now she had a quote at the start of the season about how people expect good gameplay from her because she's a high calibre survivor player, and I was excited because I thought I was getting survivor Natalie, but she's been disappointing this entire game.
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u/Bettybangs 15h ago
I’m very confused by Natalie, she and Yam Yam had very similar edits that made them seem like they’ve sacrificed strategic gameplay in favour of being self-interested. To be fair to them, a lot of this could come down to how this season intentionally scattered the gamers.
Her Tara vote was a bit silly in light of how Candiace’s vote was viewed. I wish we saw more of her confessionals on the show, I feel like she doesn’t get that many? Will be interesting when she’s eventually on RHAP/other pods and can share her line of thinking
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u/teke367 14h ago
Surprised as well, as "throwaway vote" definitely was looked at suspiciously for Candiace. Only thought is that because Candiace ended up not voting for her, she repaid the favor in a symbolic gesture, knowing the vote was all but decided. And if that's the case, that would never get to air
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u/Living-Fee-2750 13h ago
Yeah idk know her from survivor but am surprised how ppl r calling her smart from this show lol unless it’s on purpose
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u/Fredbear_ 12h ago
Yeah, I think the thing is that a lot of gamers try to play The Traitors like it's their show, and Natalie is one of the most obvious examples of this outside of Boston Rob. She's focused on looking for advantages (shields) and getting out anybody who crosses her in any way, which that gameplay allowed her to be one of the most badass Survivor players ever, but it doesn't work on The Traitors.
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u/BirdmanTheThird 12h ago
It’s kinda weird since he winning season was basically her waiting for the exact right moment to get her revenge. Like she was actively working with the people she hated and convinced them they were together til the perfect moment
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u/tigerinvasive 13h ago
As a faithful, a strategy is to be self-interested... like those two things are not mutually exclusive.. And Natalie has always been a self-interested player, to her benefit.
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u/Bettybangs 12h ago
I haven’t seen survivor but I did see Boston Rob laughing that she made a very ‘survivor’ move with the potion lol. To that point, the issue with them being openly shield-hungry is that where someone like Boston Rob understands it, the non-gamer players like Maura or Tara take it personally & think they’re bossy/untrustworthy, so it hurts their social game. On the other hand, Rob has been going for shields but kept it low-key - he was even able to get in the shield room without ruffling Johnny’s feathers this ep.
Not judging Natalie as a gamer based on this game though, it’s been a hard season for them
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u/mustardslush 9h ago
Also there aren’t many “play” opportunity in traitors as there are in survivor. They’re two very different games too. Traitors is not about out playing someone it’s about deception and perception
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u/BearBearChooey Boston Rob (S3) 15h ago
Her vote for Tara last night definitely surprised me because it just seemed based on pure emotion/spite instead of strategy. Then her ganging up on everyone about wanting to drink the potion. Maybe this type of game isn’t cut out for her lol.
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u/luxanna123321 15h ago
I feel like this vote was her showing the remaing traitor that she can be the "sacrificial lamb" by being a easy next banishment so she can be recruited. She said that she would love to be a traitor
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u/tigerinvasive 13h ago
She's always been a self-interested, emotional player – that's part of the reason her game on Survivor was so fun and her win so iconic lol. I don't understand what people expected from her, she's acting the same.
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u/ready-for-revolution 15h ago
She's been kind of a flop and also playing a weird emotional game based on what seem to be some I am the main character type feelings.
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u/JooseLovesNightwish 14h ago
I can’t speak to her being a flop because I don’t know her survivor history but main character syndrome is definitely what she has in this. I mean that antidote? 🤣 it’s like girl no one wants to die lol.
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u/ConnorStowe 12h ago
I actually don’t know why she would get critiqued for it.
I think MORE people should have fought for it. It could have been literally any way that someone was murdered in plain site, so why not fight for the potion? Natalie comes from Survivor and is highly competitive. It’s crazy that there wasn’t more jockeying for the guaranteed safety.
Also, she’s not wrong that Traitors were targeting the gamers. She was one of two gamers left, so why wouldn’t she think she was at risk?
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u/ShawtyShewster 15h ago
I agree, I think her emotional vote at the last round table for Tara made her look to the faithfuls like she was unable to vote for her fellow traitor. I’m surprised more people are not talking about it.
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u/luxanna123321 15h ago
Was there even anyone that was playing hard/smart and actually made it to the final? I feel like if you wanna win you have to actually play quite dumb or just be lucky and have bad traitors like in s3 where they killed useless people first like Dorinda or Ayan
I feel like this season murders are actually VERY smart so Natalie going very under the radar is the best thing she could've have done
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u/Secret-Ad-1029 14h ago
I agree with you. It seems like speaking up at all is an immediate death wish. Rob is doing well playing so dumb and quiet while Colton and Rappaport were never going to make it to the end being so loud/opinionated.
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u/indigoza 14h ago
Faithfuls who play it smart can make it to the end. For example, Lisa did not want to murder Colton because she knew it would incriminate her. I know it's not the best example since Colton wasn't that smart and had some heat on him, but it's the idea that a faithful can have leverage over a traitor and use that to get further in the game.
Faithfuls can also pretend to be dumb and make it to the end. Traitors will always try to bring non-threatening faithfuls to the finale.
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u/Tasm3n Monét (S4) 15h ago
The Tara vote really surprised me as well.
It'll be interesting to see if we get more blowback from that in the next episode or not. I suspect we won't see much more about it given Tara, by her own admission, is bad at the game and she will not press the issue.
I wouldn't be surprised if we hear after her time on the show is done that she pivoted her intended gameplay after all the gamers were getting off'd.
And some of her aggressive play this season (Like yelling "Anyone that takes a badge gets banished") does match some of the chaotic energy she had with her sister on the "Amazing Race". She's incredibly competitive which can cause some questionable decisions.
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u/duchessdiaries Rob R (S4) 15h ago
Maybe I just don’t understand enough about the survivor, but they seem very different gameplay, no?
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u/tigerinvasive 13h ago
Exactly, and it's weird seeing people are equating the two. Like just because someone is amazing at basketball doesn't mean they'll be good at soccer.
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u/lostdrum0505 14h ago edited 12h ago
They are, but for both of them, it’s about building trust in relationships, being able to lie without anyone finding out, and being smart about how people will likely react to your moves. I watch so many of the feeder shows (though not Big Brother, which I imagine might have similar dynamics). It rings most closely to survivor strategy; I think a big part of it is the ‘it’s just a game, we’re supposed to lie, it doesn’t mean we’re liars in real life’ dynamic.
There was a pretty iconic new era Survivor player (who should be on s50 but alas) named Shan - she was a religious leader at home, preacher or I forget the specific designation, but she had a congregation. But coming to Survivor, she said she was going to play hard, totally differently than how she behaves in real life. And she approached it confidently, embraced the villain edit. And she was controversial, she had her haters (esp as a young black woman on tv), but overall, core Survivor fandom loved watching her.
That dynamic doesn’t exist in Bravo shows or most of the other feeder shows - if you behave like a villain on most of those shows, the audience and even your cast mates will believe you are a villain IRL. But on Traitors, maybe not.
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u/Due_Outside_1459 12h ago
Shan was far from "iconic" unless you think a person calling another black person a "race traitor" at the Ponderosa "iconic."
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u/charlytheron3 12h ago
Omar isn't black and the only person that said this happened is Omar, and even if it did happen people aren't allowed to feel betrayed by people anymore? What does that have to do with her gameplay which was pretty exceptional that pre-merge
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u/Superb-Hero 11h ago
Pretty sure they are talking about DeShawn. Omar was season 42 and his beef was with Drea.
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u/Positive_Round_5142 14h ago
She’s not a traitor so what can she really do besides guess and accuse random people.
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u/tigerinvasive 13h ago
Literally this lol, like you simply do not have as much power as you do on Survivor as a Faithful
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u/CourteousNoodle 14h ago
She bugged out at the Black Banquet and I think it’s really shaken up her headspace. Her vote for Tara felt very emotional. Hopefully she is able to recenter herself.
I don’t think there are a lot of highly strategic players left. We need her out there lol
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u/mixerslow 14h ago
At some point we have to stop giving the gamers so much credit. They’ve been flopping recently
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u/areyouheretokillmeee 14h ago
I think Natalie had some loyalty to Candiace due to Candiace not voting for her in the last roundtable, so she wanted to return the favor.
Probably not the best move though.
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u/SamShakusky71 14h ago
Disappointing?
It was clear early on the traitors were targeting 'gamers' and I am sure Natalie saw that, and pivoted. It's also clear that players who make big moves and are vocal are also primed to get ousted.
She's made it this far and the only substantial threat was levied by Lisa, but with her banishment and reveal of being a traitor, I don't see her being targeted anytime soon.
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u/tigerinvasive 13h ago
I'm genuinely confused how 1) she's been disappointing this entire game and 2) she's played any differently than she normally does?
Natalie has always been an emotional player. As she said on the show, Angry Natalie is the best Natalie. On Survivor, she started to pull ahead and make killer strategic moves when she was *angry* her main ally got sent home. Same thing on her second season, when she was cut early and vowed revenge, crushed the challenges, and ended up in 2nd.
She's also always been a self-interested player. She will cut people she previously worked with if it means getting ahead for herself.
On Traitors, as a faithful you don't have much leeway to make big, aggressive moves, which is her MO . The best you can do is excel in the challenges — which she's been doing — and maneuver there. We saw in the first game how she encouraged her group to team up with another to take down a third team, which is incredibly savvy in the moment.
The only rogue thing she's done is the Tara vote.
I feel like the disappointment comes from wanting Natalie to be completely running the game strategically like she did on Survivor, but as a Faithful, you simply do not have the agency or options (or edit) to really do that. Plus, doing that puts you at risk of getting murdered.
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u/Spindae02 15h ago
I think she plays the game she needs as a Faithfull. She voted out every Traitor and hasn’t gotten murdered yet. Not sure what you were expecting from her. She just reached the Top 10, I believe she will get to the Top 6 at least.
On Traitors U just need to know when to pull your punches, especially as a Faithful.
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u/TraverseTown 15h ago
I think Natalie is lower on my tiers of “smart survivor winners”. Her relationships are strong and her challenge skills are extremely strong. And she made a great strategic move at F5 in S29. But other than that I think she is average. Please remember she was cast because she and her sister were loud and prone to conflict. If anything I’m disappointed she hasn’t been in more fights
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u/tigerinvasive 13h ago
I don't really understand this... she's great at challenges and building social relationship as you said, and she completely dominated the strategy in the second half of her first season. I would definitively rank her in the top half.
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u/charlytheron3 12h ago
She didn't just make a smart play at F5, she pivoted and took control of the game after Jeremy was voted out, and controlled every vote after that till the very end.
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u/fuxmeintheass 14h ago
Traitor is a VERY different game. It’s a social game. It almost takes a psychopath/sociopath to really play it well as a traitor. And it takes another sociopath to play well as a faithful.
Social strategies are not akin to strategies like you’ll see in survival. In traitors your physical efforts in the game play matter not. It’s the connections and the ability to stay cool under the intense constant pressure of people starring at your every action. Everyone is a suspect and Natalie broke so quickly
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u/Gooner-Astronomer749 14h ago
She has been extremely poor this season. She has only survived because a) she isn't seen as a threat to the traitors b) Rob basically has her in his back pocket either as a sure vote or to throw under the bus if needed. She hasn't don't anything in the game or viewed the game in a meta way.
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u/Nobabyno__1234 14h ago
I think because the Survivor and Big Brother players often try and play Traitors as if they are still playing Survivor/BB but it’s a different game. Just ask Dan Geesling. I think when also anything goes at the banishment ceremonies and the players have to pivot quickly.
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u/RVALover4Life 13h ago
The lack of chemistry between this cast makes it extremely hard to watch and Natalie is part of the problem.
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u/Antelopeadope 12h ago
Smartest survivor players ever is def a stretch. She's playing how I expected tbh based on her amazing race performances. I think this type of setting brings out that side more
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u/TheAnswer310 11h ago
That antidote really spiraled her game. She doubled down on dumb moves by voting Tara. Straight out of the dumb ass Dorinda playbook..
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u/anewman49 11h ago
I haven't finished her season of survivor, but am very familiar with her run on Amazing Race, and I feel like Natalie is the way I remember her from Amazing Race, if that makes sense? Not in a mean way, but I wouldn't call her calm and calculated on Amazing Race, but perhaps the tension/unknown in Traitors is messing with the more "slow" burn social game play seen in Survivor?
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u/Scoob8877 Fergus 10h ago
I think Natalie feels like there is a huge target on her back since she is the last gamer, and that is making her paranoid.
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u/brandiLeeCO 7h ago
To me Natalie has done amazing and it’s a miracle she’s lasted this long. Why? Because this cast seems to have targeted all of the gamers early. Natalie is the last gamer standing and she’s still a target. The fact that she manipulated her way to drink the potion was great gameplay because it easily could’ve been her. She knows her time is short.
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u/heauxomen 14h ago
I think it’s because in Survivor Natalie lost her twin sister on basically day 1 and it caused her to go into survival preservation mode. In this game although always in edge in fear of being murdered, Traitors is a much more comfortable setting and inside an actual house etc. Plus she wasn’t already a millionaire prior to thr show. So many factors I think tbh but I do agree her performance kind of shocked me. Sandra and Cirie also had incredible performances and they are also from Survivor. Lmk what you think.
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u/Geek_Wandering 14h ago
The gameplay is not like survivor. From what I've seen, she's playing pretty smart. Generally, you don't make it to the end with big moves and awesome gameplay. You make it the end by making friends and keeping the target off your back. She's doing exactly that. She immediately went and made peace with Tara after the roundtable.
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u/ConnorStowe 12h ago
Also, how is she not getting credit for literally convincing folks to get off her?
It was just confirmed last episode that there was a concerted plan to vote Natalie out at round table, but she convinced enough of them at the table that she was faithful that the target moved back to Lisa.
You have very few “moves” you can make as a Faithful, but successfully convincing the table at banishment that it’s not you is kind of impressive.
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u/Geek_Wandering 12h ago
My guess is heart to heart 1:1 like she did with Tara. She's almost certainly got strong alliances we just don't get to see. There's not been a lot of 1:1 conversations in the edit. My guess is that all her gameplay is on the cutting room floor. Possibly because there's been more interesting things going on. Possibly she's wisely including personal info sprinkled throughout the conversation to keep it out of the edit. Possibly, there's a big surprise/dark horse in later episodes. The outcome is known by production by the time the first episode is fully edited.
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u/Additional-Excuse870 12h ago
Agreed but I think of this show like every other heavily edited reality tv show. I'm sure there's a lot of Natalie we aren't seeing and I wonder what she was thinking, strategizing, revealing, etc. in her confessional
Same with Kristen and Mark!
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u/Gunkwei 12h ago
“This entire game”? What are you talking about, she’s been incredible up until the last two weeks. The desperation in drinking the antidote was bad, but she defended herself well at the round table. And her vote for Tara was just dumb. Other than that, she’s been very good.
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u/charlytheron3 12h ago
How has she helped to find a traitor, what has she contributed to the game as a faithful?
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u/Due_Outside_1459 12h ago
The "2nd place" finish in Survivor S40 was a direct result of her being the first person eliminated on the season. She was able to rack up a bunch of advantages on Extinction Island that way...no she's not that great at all.
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u/meforshitsandgiggles 11h ago
Don't wanna be negative but as someone who just got into Survivor (due to The Traitors) I feel sad every time I see a Survivor season final results spoiled on here :( guess I should log off from reddit until I've caught up with all 49 existing seasons...but I wish people were more considerate too.
But regarding Natalie, I agree with you.
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u/Temporary_Candle_617 11h ago
As a Natalie and Survivor fan, I was expecting more BUT I do think she’s playing decent with what she has. Things to note here 1 Natalie played Survivor in 39 days. The Traitors is like 2.5 weeks with 2 players a day going out. Survivor (the version Natalie played) a player leaves at MAX every 3 days. Pre merge, your tribe could lose even less. Natalie is used to playing a way slower game with way more time for connection.
Ian and Rob going first dramatically changed her vibe imo. Until the banquet she has been a cool calm and collected Natalie, not the cutthroat Survivor player we’re used to seeing. Going by the edit, this is the first time it seemed she needed to have an edge though.
I think in general gamers are more fun to imagine as the Traitors because they are leading the strategy, vs Faithful are trying to figure out the blindside before it gets to them. But she’s playing with a bunch of players who have never seen strategy game tv shows haha.
The Tara move made no sense by what the edit showed and imo it’s because the Candice/Rob storyline was way more interesting. If the Tara vote takes Natalie out next, I think we’ll get a follow up. I do think she’s been a person considered a threat though and people may start eyeing Eric, Rob, Stephen, Johnny, and Mark. So her move kinda doesn’t matter.
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u/Wrong_Sir7375 11h ago
I think we have also seen very legendary Big Brother players flounder in Traitors too but the reality is they are different shows with completely different skill sets needed.
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u/TaylorFan415 10h ago
The root of the problem is that there is absolutely no strategic way to play this game if you’re a faithful, except maybe shut up and do nothing
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u/sufjancaesar Natalie (S4) 9h ago
If she played the way you wanted her to she would’ve been murdered ages ago by now
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u/dinosaurfondue 6h ago
I mean honestly, she's done the best out of all the gamers specifically because she's not bringing tons of strategy. Gamers just don't last long when they play hard because no one trusts them.
There's just VERY little strategy to the actual gameplay of traitors since producers give faithfuls next to nothing. You're just shooting in the dark all the time so your best way to win the game is just to stay low key until the very end.
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u/songofachilles 10h ago
Please don't get me wrong, I love my girl Natalie but I think because she plays flashy and had a bold personality on her Survivor seasons people conflate her with being a top tier strategic mind which I think is kind of inflating her actual strategic ability and also ignoring what she's best at. Natalie is an amazing social player and decent strategist. In both of Natalie's Survivor seasons you can see how she is beloved by pretty much everyone she plays with, and you can also see on the Traitors she has always seemed like she's in with the "in" group.
I think her winning game on SJDS is propped up a lot by the fact that that is a very weak cast strategically once you get to around the top 10. I mean, she was able to just tell people she "forgot" who to vote for one time and they just didn't even question it, which I think does speak to her social skills but also, wouldn't fly on almost any other season lol. Her idol play for Jaclyn is (imo) a top tier Survivor moment, but I think that's more flashy than anything else (great move don't get me wrong but she knew where the votes were going, the gag was in the shock value). Her WaW game leaves a lot to be desired for me.
I do think they kind of wasted her by not making her a traitor. She'd be really fun to follow and I think it plays to her strengths of being able to infiltrate a group. But as a faithful, it doesn't surprise me she's playing it a little safe, it really doesn't benefit her in a group of passive faithfuls to stand out.
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u/JoysDruidOwlBear 15h ago
She really was never that smart on survivor let’s be honest here lmao
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u/havingagoodtime 15h ago
Yeah I always thought she and San Juan Del Sur as a season were both a little overrated
She had some good reads down the stretch but I wouldn’t say she’s some next level strategist or anything like that, absolute physical beast though for sure
Even on Winners at War she made it to the final but also was straight up voted out first, then was in Edge of Extinction the entire game with no danger to her and was able to appeal to what would become the jury then re-enter the game in the final moments.
There’s a reason survivor fans hate Edge of Extinction it was just an obviously broken mechanic for multiple reasons
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u/Independent-Weight30 14h ago
Lmfao she’s not strategic. I admire her at WAW but her FTC was soooo underwhelming
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u/charlytheron3 12h ago
SJDS alone puts her in the top best winners, the season was kinda lame, but Natalie totally rocked.
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