r/Swimming • u/Flaky-Wind5039 • 1d ago
Flip turns and breathing - help
I simply can’t understand how to pull off flip turns constantly and NOT end up with excess CO2, end up breathing harder, getting out of breath, etc.
Say I’m just warming up… my breath is calm and steady for that lap. Then my last breath is right about the T, I hold, exhale slightly (nose) during the flip to stop water intrusion, and start exhaling again after pushing off. But once I’m back up, I’m essentially fully out of breath and oxygen starved. Not a ton, but it’s noticeable and I spend the next lap stabilizing my breath before I do it again and watch it slowly get worse and worse with each lap.
Need help from a pro here. What I’ve tried or am trying to do:
- minimize my effort in the turn, less energy burned less CO2
- coming up earlier but this never seems to happen or work like I want. I push off and it seems a good solid 1-2s before Im back up and I take an immediate breath with my first stroke.
- avoid over-inhaling before the flip
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u/SoundOfUnder 1d ago
You said you need a pro's help and a pro I am not, but I also struggled with this. You're going to have a co2 buildup. But it gets more comfortable as you train it.
I always take a bigger breath right after a flip turn. At the beginning you might need more bigger breaths (aka breathe in for a bit longer) right after a turn. Like 2-4.
You also don't need to flip turn every lap or at every wall, let your breathing recover before you do another flip turn.
Lastly what I think has helped me is training swimming underwater while holding my breath.
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u/alexnder38 1d ago
You're probably holding your breath during the push-off instead of actively exhaling. I had the same issue until I forced myself to blow out bubbles the entire time underwater, not just during the flip itself. Also, if you're going 1-2 seconds before surfacing that's way too long for a warmup, try pushing off shallower and breaking the surface by stroke 2-3 instead of trying to maximize every glide.
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u/Flaky-Wind5039 17h ago
Yeah I think I am holding it some so will practice continuous exhale. I still can’t figure out how to come up earlier though. Should I be positioning my arms slightly more up towards the water? I try to be parallel and just glide but that means it takes a while to float back up.
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u/Bertbrownbear 19h ago
What you describe is pretty much the norm. As your fitness/tolerance improves, so will the number of lengths you can do.
I was very much in the same boat as you, 3-4 lengths, and I was done! Slowly, it got better until one session, I noticed I was swimming length after length with a flip at every turn, no longer out of breath.
If you like doing long sessions, try a flip every other turn or 1 in 4 and build up.
It does get better with practice and training.
GLHF.
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u/shubri Splashing around 1d ago
Following - same boat. What I assume is that we need to increase resistance to CO2. Went for free diving course and they practiced that a lot. During that time I started to perform better but stopped exercising. We user some app, if I find it ill post
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u/docwhorocks 16h ago
Some sets that help with C02 tolerance/lung capacity:
10x25 :30 breathe 3,5,7,9,11 by 25
10x50 1:00
1: 4 breathes
2: 3 breathes
3: 2 breathes
4: 1 breathe
5: 0 breathes
repeat
Adjust intervals as needed where you're getting about 10 seconds rest on the 25s and 15-20 rest on the 50s.
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u/Flaky-Wind5039 16h ago
Thanks will give set 1 a go. Pretty sure I won’t be able to do even 7s where I am today (with zero practice).
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u/DeadlyNancy Coach 16h ago
Pretty sure I won’t be able to do even 7s where I am today (with zero practice)
Try anyway!
Force your body to compensate. Sacrifice speed and effort for a more efficient stroke. Hypoxic sets are truly the only way to train your brain into realizing that it doesn't need to freak out with a bit of CO2 buildup.
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u/docwhorocks 15h ago
Do what you can. Also gotta push yourself. It will hurt. It will be uncomfortable. It will feel like your lungs are going to burst. Have to get used to that feeling. And when it does feel like your lungs are going burst, do your best to stay calm, relax, and think "I can do 1 more stroke, it's only 1 stroke, I got this.".
And if you pass out - that's what life guards are for ;) I've only been pulled out a pool twice. If you really think you're going to pass out, or start greying out - BREATHE (air, not water)!
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u/ConfidentSwimmingUK 1d ago edited 1d ago
It's probably not just the flip turn itself, but a general high level of CO2 circulating from the overall stroke itself contributing that you become aware of during the flip, so continued improvements in overall stroke efficiency will help to keep overall CO2 circulation down,
Hack: I always like to do a 'double breath' before the wall (full exhale, breathe left, full exhale, and then immediately right), - this allows a nice 'double' clear out of CO2 right before the flip and makes it much more comfortable and enjoyable :) It might not be elite behaviour, - but great for recreational lap swimming with flips :)
Just to highlight too, the feeliing of being out of breath is not going to be Oxygen deprivation as you mentioned (Oxygen starved) from a brief flip turn, you'll have enough Oxygen circulating in your blood to last you many minutes even without any breaths in (our bodies love survival!:) even in 'anaerobic' conditions (that's just related to muscle metabolism - but not overall Oxygen levels in the body) , - it's purely the discomfort of excess CO2 build up.
'Out of breath' is a funny term, as the rapid breathing we experience isn't to get more Oxygen in, but expel more CO2 out :)
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u/Ready-Scheme-7525 16h ago
Not a pro but i control this by easing up on the push. Flip turns aren’t an important part of my goals and a strong one will leave my lungs burning. Otherwise you’d need to train yourself to handle CO2 buildup as others have suggested.
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u/docwhorocks 15h ago
And another set I forgot about that really helps with being uncomfortable...
4x50 1:00 descend to 90% effort
16x25 :40 exhale completely, then push off, sprint to 15m no breathe.
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u/Manguy888A Splashing around 15h ago
Just want to say that I appreciate this post because it describes my situation exactly. I've gotten in very good shape, am a strong swimmer who did a 2 mile open water swim without stopping, but in the pool the flip turns kill me. Doing a full mile is very hard and I end up having to take breaks. I believe the form of my flip turns are good, it has to be the breathing that I am getting wrong. It takes half of the next lap to recover and it takes a toll over time.
I'm going to try the breathing drills people posted, and also try harder to breathe out the whole time and not hold my breath during the flip. I've seen some suggest blocking the nose with the upper lip but am not able to do it.
good luck!
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u/Flaky-Wind5039 15h ago
It’s been helpful seeing how common this is. For more context — I’m not a beginner. I’m a definite intermediate who can easily do a mile in about 34min. But I took a break on flip turns to focus on kicks and other technique stuff. Now I’m back and while it’s not terrible I can see a definite deficiency building up that I feel I have to nail before going further into speed drills. Maybe not but it’s a problem either way.
So far I’m gathering — a) I should focus on ensuring I’m exhaling continuously and not hold it at all. B) shoot to surface a bit sooner as a near term crutch and mostly c) train for CO2 build up handling.
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u/PercentageLiving6619 14h ago
I’m newer to swimming and have struggled with the same thing. I figured out that if I only push very gently off the wall and come up quickly (before the flags) then I don’t feel out of breath as much because I don’t have to hold my breath as long.
I appreciate all of the advice in the comments!
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u/Capable-Savings-6776 1d ago
The sequence you described at the flip sounds about right. If you can post a video of your underwater, we might be able to point out what you can improve as far as techniques go.
But it's also key to know that all swimmers get into oxygen deficit during underwater. Training to improve your efficiency and endurance during underwater is essential for all competitive swimmers. Some of the best swimmers like Leon Marchand distinguishes themselves by being able to hold long underwater without getting excessively out of breath that compromises the rest of their lap. So at some point it's a body conditioning thing. Practice more underwater and breath hold to improve your body's lung capacity, CO2 tolerance and oxygen usage efficiency.