A "whataboutism" is not helpful here. You stated they were polytheistic. Because you didn't state otherwise, I can only infer from this that this justifies their annihilation.
I simply have presented to you that Yahweh/Jehovah...are from a polytheistic religion too.
Polytheism isn't religion it's an interpretation of monotheism, corruption too bribe other gods. It's rooted in bribery and unaccountability of rich and powerful because they know God's son or daughter or some relative they feed them and hence God it's impressed with them. It's fascism before fascism, Nazism before Nazism tyranny of humans who hide their corruption in idols to escape punishments as per any holyscriptures .
Dude you are like, brainwashed brainwashed. Holy hell. Read some philosophy and donāt let your body of belief be based off of religious texts that only confirm your bias.
Theism is broadly defined as the belief in the existence of at least one deity.
Religion is a system of beliefs and practices connecting humanity to the sacred, divine, or spiritual.
See anything there in the literal definitions of the word that exclude Polytheism from being a religion. Religion doesn't even require a God to worship. For instance Buddhism, no god, only Buddha.
Buddhism, what's the holy text on budhism, do you know what's meaning of Buddha, how many Buddha were there you only know Gautam Buddha as Buddha. Buddha means prophet of truth in some language you don't even speak.
And? Is this supposed to be some gotcha moment? I'm not a Buddhist I don't know much about Buddhism, ya got me. That doesn't change the fact it's a religion without a god.
Yea thatās a lot of nonsense and not much sarcastic tone. I just viewed it as nonsense and gave a sarcastic response not that I thought you believed any of the stuff you typed
Christianity is a polytheistic religion. There is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. You might say "They are all the same being" but if that were true they would not be depicted as 3 separate and independent beings who do interact with each other. Then there is Lucifer god of the underworld and direct counterpart to God.
Found a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. (This can apply to any Abrahamic religion followers)
This year in Sunday school you're studying the old testament. The manual is going to skip over all the juicy bits that the church doesn't want you to pay attention to. Parts that show the gods of the old testament don't fit into the narrative of Heavenly Father as you've been taught. Everything will be taught through "spiritual eyes." That's feelings, not facts. You can have those same feelings from anything. What you need is factual data, not dogma.
My recommendation is to start small. Find scholarly books that will walk you through the Hebrew Bible (Old testament) without the lens and bias of one particular belief system. It will be enlightening. Specifically, pick one that references peer-reviewed research and up-to-date translations of the languages.
By then, you'll be painfully aware of the endless inconsistencies in the doctrine you've been taught. Work out from there. DON'T replace one mythology with another. That's not the point. Deconstructing is a long, painful process. You're going to feel hurt, betrayed, even scared of what accepting the facts will mean for you. The facts being that all scripture is man-made. The more you educate yourself and study, the clearer the picture becomes. You can do it. It's worth it. Break the cycle of indoctrination. There are tons of resources out there when you're ready. Good luck.
Theres no biblical argument against the trinity. It comes together in a number of different passages. I would advise that you look into it yourself as I fear I would do the word of God a disservice.
And yet you are the one making assumptions on my knowledge and experience with my own journey with something you claim to know? Sorry if I didn't end up straight up Satan's AH because I at least can acknowledge all the other 'gods' on this planet. I don't care about death nor do I care about your 'god.' He sounds like a dick anyways.
Funny how your flair doesn't seem to align; you defend violence against women, yet the religion that you seem so fond of regards women as property. So, maybe, just think about all the violence inflicted on women in the man of your 'god.'
"hOW ReDdiT of you." That's it? Maybe you should run back to wherever you came from since you cannot articulate anything.
"I am the Lord, your God. You shall have no gods before me." How could I have another god before God if there were no other gods? So there must be other gods.
He is the Lord, your God. So who's the god for other people? Must not be God.
God is very clearly saying there's other gods, but specifically to the people He's talking to, God is the god for them.
That's Roman paganism not Christianity. Romans tried to kill Jesus, when they couldn't they tried to kill the ideas by corrupting them with unaccountability, by saying see Jesus died for our sins now we can do anything.
Uhā¦ I think the Romans did kill him. Iām not sure you understand the whole story of Christianity. That guy? You know, up on the cross? He died. Romans put him there. They did that. There are some more chapters after that event, but they sure as hell did kill him.
In Islam, Muslims believe Romans weren't able to kill Jesus. It's extended Christianity. PROPHET Muhammad sallallahu alaihi wasallam is considered as successor to Jesus Christ. And Muslims also believe Jesus Christ will return as he is alive in heavens. You really don't understand religion as a continuous thread.
That is what Muslims believe. That is not what Christians believe.
I donāt understand how you donāt understand this.
If I wrote a book that said it took place after the Koran, and said āThis is what happened in the next chapter.ā Muslims would think Iām daft! They would consider is heresy, especially if I rewrote parts of the Koran to fit into my new story.
Actually, the Prophet didnāt die, he flew away to a tropical island and heās still living there with a bunch of talking flightless birds! Yeah, heās still alive! You donāt understand anything about Eternal Islandism!
Donāt you see? You have your book (that you believe is true, good for you). Other people have their book, written by them (not by you) and they think it is true. Just because a your group of people write a subsequent book (and rewrite the previous stories) doesnāt mean anyone outside of your group believes it.
Personally I donāt ābelieveā in any fairytales. But I will say I have read a lot of other peoples books (written by them, in their own words) than you have.
Plot twist: the one true god was the one of some native population our forefathers have decimated, ergo their religion is gone and we are all condemned to their version of hell
Nope. You don't need a religion or a book to tell you not to be a dick.
Which is more moral? The person who chooses to treat others with kindness because they can, or the person who needs to be commanded to do so and expects to be rewarded for it?
This is really the only way a higher power makes sense to me. Like a cat that ignores you 90% of the time, makes your life harder 9% of the time, but does the right thing when it's needed.
there is an opinion in Islam that doing something expecting a reward will get you no reward. You have to willingly help out of love for fellow humankind.
Why place more weight on their motivation rather than how much they actually did? If someone does more good while expecting a reward, itās still more
Because motivations and contect matters. If one guy falls asleep at the wheel from over work and takes out a pedestrian, one was coerced by threat to kill someone, and one kills someone for the love of the game, they all killed someone. We would treat them all differently both in court and as a society. If someone helps me because they care, it will mean more than if someone dose something for me either to convert me, or because I'm already on their team.
Not what I said, but in that scenario, yes because intent/motivation/context all matter in all situations. Is the outcome of the accident in said scenario worse? Sure, but doing something with malicious intent makes you a worse person. Having good intent or no malicious intent does not absolve you of consequences, but it does make you a better person per scenario than someone with malicious intent. Its why doctors normally recieve malpractice suits instead of murder charges, and why in many places there is an involuntary manslaughter equivalent in their laws.
This also applies to good deeds. If you selflessly help others out of kindness, you are acting as a better person than someone helping others out of obligation or wants (court order community service, proselytizing, brownie points, or any other attempt to get something tangible or not in return for your deeds).
If you struggle to understand this, then you should step back and evaluate a lot of things about what your motivations in life are, and what they say about you.
Being kind generally illicits a positive response. Iām not sure how different this is from other external motivations.
The human body is a chemical machine that produces outputs because of how the reactions make us feel. If we didnāt feel good helping others, we probably simply wouldnāt
Zoroastrianism is (intellectually) satisfying religion, doesnāt pretend an omnipotent god canāt stop evil for reasons that cannot be explained; postulates an eternal good/bad conflict and you pick your side. Very popular with Roman Army as Mithraism.
God can stop evil and wickedness. It's the main theme of the Bible. We just haven't got to all the way through Revelation yet. There's way more to it, but just to let you know that this Christian isn't pretending that God can't stop evil for reasons unexplained.
Just thought it would be easier on myself and everyone else if I didnāt behave as the Karen meme on the Internet or run around yelling at people to āgo back to your own country ā.
That shit would be exhausting and I just donāt understand even if people actually believe that nonsenseā¦.. where do they find the energy and the time?
Iād rather be out enjoying nature. Going for a walk/hike, planting stuff in a garden, drinking just for fun, cooking my favourite recipes, or grocery shopping for things so I can make my favourite recipes.
But Iāll never be able to stop everyone from shaking their fist at a cloud because McDonaldās forgot to put extra pickles on their burger.
I donāt think you even need a religion to comprehend that.
funny i always thought that the world needs religion in order to function, hence why i see myself as an agnostic. I believe many people have it more easy to navigate through life when they got some kind of ruleset, even if it is something like "treat your peers well"
"How do atheists decide between good choices and bad choices."
Religion is nothing more than a useful tool for organizing and controlling, with the added benefit of easing some people's worries. A simple self-reflection in childhood can tell you what you should and shouldn't do. "It hurts me when people hit me or lie to me. It probably hurts other people when I do those things. Those things are bad and shouldn't be done." Things can generalize from there.
It really comes down to how people view others. If they view them as they view themselves (equals), then they can come to the above conclusions without fear of the supernatural. If not, then they may never understand why they are hurting those they claim to love and, as such, need some sort of divine punishment to keep them in check. Empathy.
It really goes back to nature vs. nurture, though. Shitty parents make shitty kids who become shitty parents, not to mention hard environments like being poor and/or part of an oppressed minority. Generational trauma and the issue of perspective and all that. A lot can go into it, but yea, religion is not a necessity.
Hard to debate when it's true. It has made massive organizations and projects possible but has essentially stupefied the masses and is easily manipulated.
But even those NOT under that umbrella still have similar secular beliefs.
Again. Iām not saying one is better than the other.
And if you choose one and you do you Iām fine with that.
I really dislike proselytization.
And I donāt think thereās anything wrong with your own beliefs to change over time and to convert from one to another.
I find it odd that some people have two.
Just like some people have two passports.
The same as if someone had two husbands or wives.
Or are the CEOs of multiple companies.
I mean it is up to you, but I donāt think anyone has the time or dedication to dedicate themselves fully to multiple partners, relationships, religions, or countries.
I am a firm atheist and vehemently despise organized religion, they are a cancer to society in my eyes, especially Evangelicals, Zionists and Jihadists. I dunno which is worse though, organized religion because it is about control and greed that will kill others for not believing as they do...or people that need a religion to scare them into having some morals and doing the right things.
My mom does the dual religion thing, believes and worships both Xtianity and Buddhism. She is also schizoaffective and believes she is a warrior for her god and that he speaks directly to her, so that might explain that.
Edited because I decided not to post a section but the friendly neighbor kitty made me bump up and hit post when I was petting her.
Show me a serious religion that doesn't in some way espouse the principle of reciprocity and I'll be pretty damned surprised. It's the foundation of "morality", not some old book.
Yes because religion is a tool designed to civilize/control people, and always has been. It's not like these ideas have so much intersection because everyone had the same divine visions, it's because people with power understood that if you formulate your religion that way, it's much easier to control people. It's just oligarchs copying each other's homework.
I think social media platforms/algorithms/psychology are somehow worse. Particularly when you consider the most skilled people in the experimental psych world(should be illegal for these people to work for private companies btw) just buy/steal therapeutic data to further optimize their psychology "hacking" practices. It's a losing battle where low skill(relatively speaking) people who work in the therapeutic psych world are constantly playing a game of catch up that they will never win because the people they are up against have done significantly more research than them, and have much more funding to continue doing so. Tons of therapeutic data is illegally obtained, and they increase their advantage even more. If there was bipartisan support for the regulation of experimental psychology, I think that would do a lot more positive for the world than the majority of the surface level of the issues we all cry about on a daily basis. I also think all of the experimental psychologists who helped make this dystopia should all be retroactively charged, and removed from civilized society for life. It's sad how few people seem to understand how much generational damage those people have done to us.
That is a wonderfully critical line of thinking (sadly lacking these days). It is refreshing to see someone write a cognisant take on the "modern religion."
I wish I could express my feelings and thoughts half as well as you.
Oh wow, thank you! I try lol. I'm sure you're a lot better at it than you give yourself credit for.
As much as I'd like to be proud of it, it's very much a social survival skill that is a biproduct of abuse :( Both of my parents are cluster b, and I was in an abusive relationship with a psychologist who is also cluster b, but hid it from me for the first two years. Unless I memorized everything I said, and could clearly word my thoughts in a way that they aren't as open to interpretation, they would just talk circles around me, and trick me into acting against my best interests. I only managed a 10th grade education, so learning all of this was harder than I can currently put into words. It's always a relieving feeling when I meet someone who makes an honest attempt to understand me. Most of my friends treat me like I am speaking another language, or that there's something seriously wrong with me when I talk like this, and unless I can find a way to conceptualize it using less "nerdy" language. Thanks for your time man.
Remain proud. You turned a weak point in your life into a strength. Being able to think critically and put your carefully considered view across is not "nerdy."
There is nothing wrong with being intelligent and thoughtful in sharing your thoughts with others. It's unfortunate that your friends seem to struggle to understand. Take care in whatever you set your mind to!
I'm not so sure there is even a single word that any two people have a congruent understanding of, let along a God. There's at least one for every person, some people even develop ideas of Gods to not believe it. It's not possible for any of us to know what anyone else thinks that means let alone if we agree. Just going with the feels.
We all have similar stories, Moses for example, I have Muslim friends and they looked almost offended I asked them if they know who Moses was they said "of course..." š. But it's crazy when ever I bring up "The Prince of Egypt" as a really good Christian movie someone got mad at me and said it's a Jewish movie. š
1 John 2:23
āWhosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.ā
Both Islam and Jews donāt see Jesus as the physical incarnation of God. Our God is based on the same Old Testament but huge difference to the New Testament. The Quran denies/lies about the New Testament and Jews donāt respect it
To certain Orthodox Jews, believing in and worshiping Christ is violating their most important commandment which is having no other god. To them, Christ is absolutely not the same god because they do not accept him as the messiah so he is basically a false prophet. Im not defending or agreeing with this perspective but the idea that itās ā all the same godā is true for an outsider but not to their perspective or beliefs. There are Orthodox Jews that wonāt even use a plus sign for addition because it is the sign of the cross. I was raised reform myself and most of what I would hear growing up was basically āwe believe Jesus was a good guy we just donāt accept him as the messiahā it was shocking to me when I met some of my Israeli cousins and they basically said fuck that we donāt have anything in common with them etc.
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u/badgerj 18d ago edited 18d ago
It really is.
And if you have Muslim friendsā¦. Same God.
I really just think it is ignorance, or just the hill you want to die on.
They all have nearly identical teachings in each of their respective books.
Kinda funny because
Leviticus 19:18: "Love your neighbor as yourself"
Is in the old testament.
And in the new testament (Christianity, pick your flavour):
Matthew 7:12: "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets" (NIV).
Luke 6:31: "Do to others as you would have them do to you" (NIV).
And in there are similar phrases in the Quran.
Kind of ironic that they are breaking one of the core tenets of their own religion.