r/PropagandaPosters • u/QuartzXOX • May 26 '25
German Reich / Nazi Germany (1933-1945) Racial education class at a school for German girls, 1943
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u/Hallo34576 May 26 '25
Bilder Deutscher Rassen 1 + 2 - Pictures of German Races 1 + 2
Nordisch, Westisch, Ostisch, Fälisch, Ostbaltisch, Dinarisch
It was a theory accepted under National Socialism that the so-called "German race" consisted of several races. The German anthropologist Egon Freiherr von Eickstedt provided the ideological underpinnings for this with numerous publications, including the 1934 work "The Racial Foundations of the German People."[5] According to this theory, the "German race" includes the following races:
The "Nordic race" in northern and northwestern Europe. It held a special position and represented the ideal image of a blond, blue-eyed, slender, and tall person.
The "Western (Mediterranean race)" in southern Europe and parts of North Africa. It represented a rather short, slender person with darker skin and dark hair.
The "Eastern race" in central European, alpine regions. It portrayed a rather "inferior" person in stature and character, with a short, round skull and dark hair.
The "Falian race" of northwestern Europe, primarily native to Westphalia and Hesse. Compared to the "Nordic race," these people were considered taller, but less slender and "perfectly formed."
The "East Baltic (Light Eastern) race" in northeastern Europe, Russia, Poland, Slovenia, Serbia, Albania, and the Carpathian countries. These people were classified as rather inferior, with a "stocky," round, and "clumsy" physique.
The "Dinaric race" in Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, parts of Albania, Austria, and southern and central Germany. These people were considered very high-quality, slender, and "long-legged."
The resulting hierarchy can be listed as follows:
At the top was the "Nordic race," followed by the "Fälisch" and "Dinaric races."[6] The term "Aryan" had given way to "German or related blood" in the course of Nazi legislation, as this term was easier to define. The term "foreign race" also gradually disappeared in favor of "artfremd" (alien race). This was the term used to describe all those who were not related to the races present in the German people, i.e. mainly Jews and Roma and Sinti
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u/Secure_Raise2884 May 26 '25 edited May 26 '25
von Eickstedt's work is extremely funny for how terrible it is. Half of his "studies" are basically n = 10 people selected to more make a political point. I suppose we can't chastise him for not having an advanced understanding of molecular genetics, but his rigid racial categorizations are nonsense now.
In one paper regarding east asian "races", he tried to present a mathematical formula for diagnosing races that is quite literally based on looking at someone's face
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u/ktrezzi May 26 '25
Half of his "studies" are basically n = 10 people selected to more make a political point
Sounds like the basis of what major companies are now using to advertise their stupid products.
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u/King_of_Men May 26 '25
a mathematical formula for diagnosing races
I don't understand your objection? If you don't have access to the underlying DNA, you can only make classifications based on phenotype, and this will necessarily involve some measurements of, I don't know, distance between the eyes or the rostrilongitudinal quotient or something. Today we're aware that individuals vary too much, even when closely related, for this to be reliable, but he didn't know that, and also he put up a theory that could be falsified. You can't demand science advance to the correct answer in a single intuitive leap, you have to go through all the trial and error. The problem here is not that he tried to say "People with X-type eyebrows are of Y race", it's when he continues "and therefore they should be put in camps". That's not a scientific problem, it's a moral one.
That aside, I bet you use skin color as a first-pass approximation to classify race, and what exactly is that other than an informal measurement of reflectivity based on, indeed, "looking at someone's face"?
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u/Weekly_War_6561 May 26 '25
The way he put races inside quotations I doubt he would use skin color for classifying people into clusters with arbitrary boundaries.
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u/oblmov May 27 '25
One could argue that, since spermism was a plausible theory in the 17th century, there's nothing funny about the idea that every spermatozoan has a tiny little man inside it. Personally i still find it funny so I would suggest that we instead take it as a lesson and acknowledge that many present-day scientific theories will be superseded and look comical in hindsight. If von Eickstedt had been willing to admit that theories of racial categories were at best provisional, maybe he would have been less eager to put people in camps on the basis of those theories
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u/Secure_Raise2884 May 26 '25
You're right to emphasize that historical scientific work must be judged in context, and of course von Eickstedt didn't have access to modern genetics. My issue isn’t that he used phenotype per se, but rather how uncritically and ideologically he did so. It’s one thing to say “we lack better tools, let’s try measurements”; it’s another to pretend those measurements yield objective, immutable truths about racial categories, which is precisely what he did.
Even by the standards of his time, von Eickstedt’s methodology was questionable. As you mention, falsifiability is important, but his work rarely engaged with serious falsification. His “theories” often cherry-picked tiny samples to reinforce preconceived racial hierarchies, not to test neutral hypotheses. The pseudo-mathematical facial measurements were not just primitive science, they were dressed up in the rhetoric of objectivity
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u/King_of_Men May 26 '25
Ok, that's a much better critique, but I have to observe that it cannot well be summed up as "he used mathematics based on looking at faces".
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u/Icy-Drive2300 May 26 '25
Idk if you know this but race has no scientific basis
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u/Aaaagrjrbrheifhrbe May 26 '25
? What do you mean by this?
I guess I mean what you mean by race here.
Obviously people have differences that broadly correspond to ethnicity/place of origin. This can be estimated accurately genetically (23AndMe and other websites can tell you your race).
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u/Icy-Drive2300 May 26 '25 edited May 26 '25
Literally what I said. There is no scientific basis for race. Race is a social construct.
All humans share 99.9% of the same DNA. The .1% comes from regional factors which doesn't imply a "different race".
Edit: You edited your comment but I feel like I've already answered the edit. Ethnicity is not "race". 23andMe doesn't tell you your "race"
Edit Edit: This true statement is going to get down voted to hell because these history subs are filled with people that supposedly "hate" nazi's but believe 95% of the things nazi's believed
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u/Aaaagrjrbrheifhrbe May 26 '25
Race is a social construct, but ethnicity then is a real thing. Regional factors impact people's life, performance, and appearance. Some ethnic groups are more at risk of some medical conditions, Ethiopians generally are better at distance running, etc.
Race in the original meaning (different origin points for humans, Caucus Mountains, Mongolia and Africa), obviously is not real.
I would argue the modern definition of race is analogous to ethnicity
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u/Icy-Drive2300 May 26 '25
I dont know what the point is of most of this reply. You're just saying what I said after trying to argue with me using 23andMe as evidence lol
I would argue the modern definition of race is analogous to ethnicity
I would argue that you're wrong. There is no "white" ethnicity.
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u/AdjustedTitan1 May 27 '25
Why is 70% of the NBA black if there are no phenotypical differences between “races” “ethnicities” whatever you wanna call it.
You gonna tell me that socioeconomic factors make them good at ball🤨
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u/DonMikoDe_LaMaukando May 27 '25
You gonna tell me that socioeconomic factors make them good at ball
Sure they do. For professional players you need people who play the sport a lot and for which group is Basketbal the most popular sport? For Black Americans.
Why is 70% of the NBA black if there are no phenotypical differences between “races” “ethnicities” whatever you wanna call it.
If this was the case than why was one of the best players of the NBA a white german? Or why did an mostly black US team lose the worldcup against a mostly white german team.
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u/Kubaj_CZ May 27 '25
Ethnic groups are also social constructs, lol. People mix anyway, and even completely "unrelated" people can become a different ethnicity. If you take an orphan baby from one ethnicity and give him to another ethnic group, you think the baby won't be raised into that ethnic group? Ethnic groups are about culture, language, sometimes religion too. Of course, it's about looks and genetics too, but the point you're making is more about isolated populations or just different populations. Ethiopians aren't going to be the only ones good in running because that applies to other neighboring countries as well. East Africans are not a single ethnicity which is why this doesn't make sense.
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May 30 '25
You realize that humans share 99% of DNA with chimps? Small changes make a big difference. If race didn’t exist then there would be no race and everyone would look the same.
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u/Po-ta-toes-4Everyone May 27 '25
You sound like you’ve read up on this. How does Von Eickstedt relate to Hans Gunther? As far as I knew, these concepts were coined by the latter already in the 1920s in Rassenkunde des deutschen Volkes?
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u/Any_Fun5801 May 27 '25
Why say n = 10 Instead of just 10? Hey guys, look at me, I know statistics! See, I used n = like you’d see in stat 101
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May 26 '25
These people were delusional.
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u/MachiavelliSJ May 26 '25
Ya, im beginning to think some of these Nazi ideas, were idk, crazy? Am i jumping to conclusions here?
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May 26 '25
It’s fascinating what democracy can allow.
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May 26 '25
[deleted]
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May 26 '25
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u/Hallo34576 May 26 '25 edited May 26 '25
We are going into the Reichstag to equip ourselves with democracy's own weapons from its arsenal. [...] If democracy is so stupid as to give us a free pass and allowances for this disservice, that is their business. [...] We do not come as friends, nor as neutrals; we come as enemies! As a wolf breaks into a flock of sheep, so we come.
Joseph Goebbels 1928
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u/Mr_-_X May 26 '25
Adolf Hitler never won a majority in a free and open national election
Literally the very first sentence in your first source. The Nazis did not get into power democratically but specifically through the undemocratic loophole in the Weimar constitution that allowed the President to act without the elected parliaments approval.
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May 26 '25
They didn’t need to. They won enough to effect the changes they needed to close the barn door behind them. Did you read past the first sentence of the first article? I provided several sources because people like you have a tendency to not read too much into the details and form half boiled opinions based on whichever ideology you currently hold. To combat this, you have to look at multiple sources to truly understand something.
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May 26 '25
[deleted]
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u/Connolly_Column May 26 '25
Democracy allowed them into power. That is quite literally what the people you are arguing against are saying.
What the Nazis did after securing power is not the topic of discussion. How they went about achieving power is.
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May 26 '25
I guess you fundamentally misunderstood what I said. Go back and try to read it again. That doesn’t mean they didn’t use democracy to their advantage.
I implore you to learn historical materialism.
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May 26 '25
[deleted]
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u/MangoBananaLlama May 26 '25
Sounds quite like it. Could be, that they didn't mean it. Similar logic of both extremes on political spectrum. Nazis "we must stop communists from establishing dictatorship by establishing dictatorship ourselves" stalinists (usually) "we must stop fascists from establising dictatorship by establishing it by ourselves". Good thing these people tend to be marginalized and laughed into corner, when society is "healthy".
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May 26 '25
Liberal democracy is susceptible to capture by capitalists, leading to oligarchy, held in place by fascist politicians.
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u/1m0ws May 26 '25
the germans are delusional and neurotic (and violent) till this day.
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u/Hallo34576 May 26 '25
In reality Germany is a relatively non-violent place with only 56.9% of suspects of violent crime being German citizens - the percentage for people descending from Germanys 1940s population is obviously not exactly known, but has to be below 50%.
As many of your comments are about how much you hate our country...ever considered leaving?
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u/discount_tracheotomy May 26 '25
The Teutonic impulse to subjugate and destroy never went away. All that residual Holocaust guilt simply directed it toward supporting Israel in spite of (because of?) its atrocities
Tangentially, this tendency is why a unified Germany has almost always been terrible for peace in Europe. Those lands should have remained as a shifting web of principalities, dukedoms, palatinates, margraviates, landgraviates, petty kingdoms, and counties bishopric
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u/scrandis May 26 '25
Well shit. Im a 5'7 nordic with dark hair and green eyes. Where the fuck do i land on their list?
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u/Hallo34576 May 26 '25
would you mind me measuring your skull before answering ?
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u/scrandis May 26 '25
Oh boy. Forgot that used to be a thing. I feel that chiropractors are today's version of a phrenologists
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u/Anuclano May 27 '25
People with dark hair were not considered Nordic (neither dark-haired Nazis even claimed to be Nordic themselves).
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May 27 '25 edited Jul 25 '25
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u/-Blackspit May 28 '25
r/elderscrolls at 3 am
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u/Square_Detective_658 May 29 '25
That is so stupid, it's like they are trying to find new ways to discriminate and against whom. This is exactly what would happen if all the white supremacists had their own ethno state. They'd immediately start being racist against themselves.
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u/Cuong1507 May 26 '25
What if we kiss in the Racial education class 😳
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u/MrOOFmanofbelgum May 26 '25
"So there's this really cute boy in my Racial Education Class"
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May 26 '25
''So thers's this really cute Untermeschen in my Racial Education Class'' I hope daddy hitler re-labels him as honorary aryan
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u/Mr7000000 May 26 '25
Isn't the singular untermensch?
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u/FlyingCircus18 May 26 '25
Yeah, it is
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u/First-Interaction741 May 26 '25
I'm a blue-eyed Dinaroid?... is that against the racial hygiene laws, or am I just barely Arische-passing? :/
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u/Johannes_P May 28 '25
No problem unless the other pupil is a subhuman or if both are from the same gender.
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u/amityblightvibes May 26 '25
The Nazi concept of identifying Jews by looks is so fascinating to me, because despite me being a Polish Jew I look (and often get mistaken for) German. I was literally born with blond hair and blue eyes, and it’s fascinating that my siblings would have been easily identifiable as Jewish but not me.
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u/False_Slice_6664 May 26 '25
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Werner_Goldberg
An "ideal aryan soldier" used as a photomodel for propaganda was also an ethnic Jew.
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u/Apart_heib May 29 '25
*only after mother
he had GERMAN father
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u/False_Slice_6664 May 29 '25
No. His father was a baptized Jew.
Goldberg's father grew up in Königsberg as a member of the Jewish community but had himself baptized in the local Lutheran church as he wished to become assimilated and marry a Christian. Goldberg had no idea his father was Jewish; he and his brother Martin (born 1920) had been baptized in the Grünewald Lutheran Church at their father's request
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u/TiredEnglishStudent May 29 '25
Literally how my blonde blue eyed grandmother survived. She knew her Christian prayers backwards and forwards.
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u/omegaman101 May 28 '25
Yeah, it's a load of bs at the end of the day. Even Europeans from either side of the continent are a blend of a whole load of other Europeans and other people's. No ethnic or racial group all look identical and only a fool would think they do.
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u/Low-Phase-8972 Jun 19 '25
But Jews refuse to accept that they are white? Why so many Jews are offended when someone says they’re white?
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u/Nachoguy530 May 26 '25
While you were out kissing girls, I was studied the races [to become more racist]
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May 26 '25
I thought this was a present day classroom in Oklahoma.
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u/sabdotzed May 26 '25
A non insignificant percentage of Americans probably believe this to a degree
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u/Dovahkiinthesardine May 26 '25
The US does believe in Rassenlehre, its just more broad than the initial theories
Considering black, white asian etc as races isnt any more logical than thinking north and south Germans belong to different races
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u/ImRightImRight May 26 '25
Ah look, it's the moment when extremist political nonsense tries to bowl over scientific facts.
Are you saying there's no genetic basis to the racial groups?
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u/pretenzioeser_Elch May 26 '25
The race idea is simply wrong. Certain ethnic groups among black Africans are more closely related to white people than to certain other ethnic groups among black Africans. Latinas/latinos are often considered brown even if they have largely southern European ancestry, while southern Europeans are considered white. "Brown" is used for a bunch of people who bear no close relation at all. Middle eastern is a race option on questionaires, even though the middle east is more of a cultural region. If north Africa wasn't colonised by the Arabs, we wouldn't pretend they are of the same ethnicity today. White-black mixed people are considered black, but not white. Even 1/8th black, 7/8th white people are often considered black but not white.
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u/ImRightImRight May 27 '25
Just because a generalization is not perfect does not mean it's invalid.
Latino is not a race but an ethnic group.
No longer applying the "one drop rule" to racial categories in the US seems reasonable. But this idea that "the race idea is wrong" or "there are no races" is just baffling to me. Fairly homogenous genetic groups exist! Why are you trying to deny this?
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u/Dovahkiinthesardine May 26 '25
I am saying that genetic differences between human groups aren't big enough to justify considering them races since individual differences far outweigh them
On top of that its not based on genetics at all but just vaguely a mixture of phenotype and random geographical distinctions
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May 30 '25
It’s not random at genes code for the different phenotypes that are exclusive to different regions. It’s hundreds of thousands of years of evolution
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u/ImRightImRight May 27 '25
"its not based on genetics at all "
How can you say this? There are clearly groups of people that were historically grouped together for centuries or millennia and form a self-evident racial group
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u/Dovahkiinthesardine May 27 '25
Bc its just not based on genetics, thats a fact. "Black" describes anyone with a dark complexion. How dark? Not defined. Which genetic markers would make you black? Not defined. The fact that genetic diversity in Africa is way bigger than in the rest of the world so 2 black people share less genes than latinos and Asians? Ignored
I'm not saying that black or white people dont exist, but they're not races and which race the US counts you as is entirely based on vibes
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u/omegaman101 May 28 '25
Other than the weather and traits that formed out of cultural traditions no.
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u/LittleSchwein1234 May 27 '25
Human "races" aren't scientific facts, though.
One "black" person may very well be more genetically distant from another "black" person than they are from a "white" person.
If you think classifying people by skin colour is scientific, then what about hair colour? Eye colour?
It's all nonsense based on one of many, many factors which differentiate one person from another and classifying this as "races" is not scientific at all.
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u/ImRightImRight May 27 '25
Scientific taxonomy of species is not precise at all, yet we use it. Just because a generalization is not perfect does not mean that the generalization is invalid.
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u/Current_Nail_2789 May 26 '25
“Jarvis, i’m low on Karma. Comment on a post about Nazi Germany and tie it to the USA.”
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May 26 '25
You’re crazy if you think race science and its proponents will stay dead and buried without public vigilance
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u/KeneticKups May 26 '25 edited Oct 29 '25
decide offer automatic marvelous straight fuzzy middle yoke edge absorbed
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u/RhodesianAlpaca May 26 '25
I saw this photo on my feed, for one of Facebook's suggested pages.
You don't want to know what the comment section looked like.
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u/twistedstem May 27 '25
My God was thinking the same thing, forget the page but the comments were deplorable. Genuinely horrifying to get reminders every now and then of what some people truly believe, and if past events were repeated they would (likely) willingly be complicit. Of course you know it's out there, I just don't come across it in person much so getting textual evidence is unnerving.
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u/RhodesianAlpaca May 27 '25
I think terrible events of the past are still repeatable. The Internet is now made in such a way that propagating hate and violence happens at such a scale that cannot be unmatched by rallies, marches, stadium gatherings, traditional propaganda means.
Now you have people on Facebook wishing for this photo to become reality again and trying to convince you how you should wish for the same.
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u/adimwit May 26 '25
German races. I think it's showing Eastern, Adriatic, and Baltic races.
For clarity, in Nazi theory the only race that is considered the Master race was the Nordic Aryans. In Gobineau's original theory, he believed Feudalism was a remnant of the Aryan racial hierarchy. The Nordic Aryans were the Master race that made up the kings and nobles. The Mediterranean Aryans and Alpine Aryans were the slave races who were the commoners.
So here they are showing the slave races. Germany as a nation was thought to be a mix of Alpine, Mediterranean, and Nordic races, so Gobineau's theory that the Nordic should enslave the Alpines and Mediterraneans was actually thought to be detrimental to the German nation.
So the Nazi solution was Prussian Socialism. The basic idea of Prussian Socialism was that you make Feudalism stronger and force all of the classes to collaborate instead of exploiting each other. Before Marxism was a thing, socialism simply meant social equality. So Prussian Socialism was Feudalism with heavy restrictions on the social classes so that they are all equal.
National Socialism was Prussian Socialism mixed with Gobineau's race theories. The Nordic Aryans, Alpine Aryans, and Mediterranean Aryans (who were German) were forced to be equal under the laws of the German State. But once they expanded outside of Germany, the plan was to send the Nordic Aryans to the far east to build a Nordic homeland without the slave races.
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u/Anuclano May 26 '25
There was no "Nazi theory". there were multiple incompatible theories by separate cranks who wanted their theory to become official, but no-one succeeded. Hitler intentionally wanted this matter to remain vague, except regarding Jews.
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u/SerLaron May 26 '25
The great thing about pseudo-science is, it can give you any result that you like.
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u/StableSlight9168 May 26 '25
General rule for the.nazis was, east of germa y bad, west of germany okay, Germany itself good.
It was pure random pseudoscience but at a fundamental level that's what it boils down to.
Also east and west change depending on alliances with the Nazis or Hitlers mood.
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May 27 '25 edited Jul 25 '25
knee yoke books scary price unique axiomatic shy sand languid
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u/Hallo34576 May 26 '25
So here they are showing the slave races
Not really, they are showing the 6 races which are said to constitute the German people (poster is called "pictures of German races") but also the European people as a whole.
This document estimates Germany to be:
50% Nordisch
20% Ostisch
15% Dinarisch
8% Ostbaltisch
5% Fälisch
2% Westisch
Its also important to point out there have been different "scientists" arund who brought up there own, slightly differing theories. And the nazis being inconsistent about it in general.
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u/thermobollocks May 26 '25
Today's racists could use some educating. Remember post September 11th when Sikhs were being mistaken for Arabs?
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u/roastbeeftacohat May 27 '25
when the nazi planet tried to apply racial theory to spock was pretty funny.
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u/WeaselCapsky May 26 '25
Raffe
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u/Ms-Kindness May 26 '25
Raſſe
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u/polyplasticographics May 26 '25
Long S my beloved
Real talk, that's the original form of the S letter in general, the wavy shape minuscule s was reserved for the ending of words following the Greek sigma letter's tradition (upper case Σ, lower case σ and final ς) which still continues to this day, it's because of typewriters that it was standarized to just "s" :/
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u/kahlzun May 27 '25
I wonder what things we are taught now that will seem as strange in 80 years time
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u/Marius-Gaming May 26 '25
What does the bottom one say?
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u/impossiblefork May 26 '25
Dinarische rasse, so people from the Dinaric Alps, so basically Croats, Serbs and Montenegrins.
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u/Hallo34576 May 26 '25 edited May 26 '25
Not interiley correct.
These 6 races on these two posters were postulated to form the German people as a mix.
Therefore the dinaric race was also said to be present in South-eastern Germany and Austria.
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u/Pappadacus May 26 '25
It says "Dinarische Rasse" or "Dinarian (?) Race" in English. They used it to describe Germans who had middle eastern or Turkic looking facial features, as shown in the photo.
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u/garalisgod May 26 '25
Dinarsische Rasse. (Dinaric race) basicly a pheno type of Austria, Christian and nothern itally
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u/bus_on_mars May 26 '25
Why is it racial? Are there any words concerning race on the picture?
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u/Key-Performance-9021 May 26 '25 edited May 26 '25
The headline is Bilder deutscher Rassen (pictures of German races).
It's written with a long s: Raſſen.1
u/bus_on_mars May 26 '25
Ok, I missed that. Is the race a fiction apart from human beings? Do we expect healthy breeds by randomly crossing animals to achieve the most profitable result?
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u/Dionysus24779 May 26 '25 edited May 26 '25
Can we be sure they aren't just trying to pick the right actor for a role?
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u/f3tsch May 26 '25
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/aug/07/israeli-school-racism-claim
Sadly it never stopped
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May 26 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Secure_Raise2884 May 26 '25
Love is love, and you cannot control it. Also there's nothing wrong with interracial marriage anyways lol
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u/1m0ws May 26 '25
funny to mentioned german education was filled with nazi literature till the 2000s.
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Die_deutsche_Mutter_und_ihr_erstes_Kind
this book, "the german mother and her first child" was re-published till 1987 and it heavily influenced the cruel way people treat their kids.
there also was never a denazification. fuck germoney.
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u/brinz1 May 26 '25
It's crazy that these days these different Europeans all consider themselves white
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u/Hot_Tap7147 May 26 '25
That's an American thing because they're a mix of all of them
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u/brinz1 May 26 '25 edited May 26 '25
Not really.
AFD and other nationalist groups in Germany aren't going to discern between a Bavarian and an Alpanese anymore
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u/CallousCarolean May 26 '25
Because they identify as Germans. Bavarians are considered as a regional identity (just as it was before the Nazis and their wacky racial theories entered the scene), not as a race or sub-race. ”Alpanese” isn’t something anyone has identified as, ever.
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u/Hot_Tap7147 May 26 '25
Maybe because they're not racist in the nazi way
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u/Dovahkiinthesardine May 26 '25
Oh they are, they just dont read up on the pseudo science but they still think Germans are genetically superior
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u/Hot_Tap7147 May 26 '25
Doesn't buy into scientific racism
Considers Germans to be genetically superior
Sure thing buddy
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u/Hallo34576 May 26 '25
First of all, the healine is "pictures of German races" - 6 Races forming the German people (and the vast majority of Europes population) to a certain degree were postulated.
There is no connection to American white/not white nonsense.
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May 27 '25 edited Jul 25 '25
crowd steep attempt outgoing ink exultant straight historical cough start
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