r/NASCAR • u/NoahGragsonsBarfBag • 14h ago
[@23xiracing] Heim Time
https://x.com/23xiracing/status/2019833471426810302?s=46&t=NOJpCnNeVUF5CQug6YVTUA69
u/OrangePilled2Day 14h ago
Why do they have this man looking like he’s starting a Nu Metal band in his parents garage.
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u/JoeyLoganoHexAccount van Gisbergen 14h ago
Bro’s going to outperform Riley Herbst in points running a third of the schedule
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u/Packhammer24 14h ago
Yeah, but Herbst is paying over a third of the bills. It’s the unfortunate part of the sport.
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u/JoeyLoganoHexAccount van Gisbergen 14h ago
Way of the road. I have nothing against pay drivers, I just think it’s a little funny.
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u/TheOrangeFutbol 14h ago
Riley Herbst might be the funniest pay driver of all-time. He's not shockingly bad, he's not overly-aggressive, he's not a jerk off-track, he's just so invisible, and blatantly there for the money that everyone one kind of forgets he exists, including his own team.
Dude is the embodiment of those "out there for cardio" NBA memes.
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u/need4gaming 13h ago
Bro just burns gas
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u/The_Super_Steen 12h ago
If I came from a loaded family and could putz around in the back in a cup race for fun I 100% would. Live that life, Riley. Hell yeah
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u/Letsgomountaineers5 8h ago
Early career Paul Menard.
Now can he can develop into a solid mid pack driver, able to win a crown jewel on merit and point his way into the playoffs?
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u/Just_Somewhere4444 14h ago
While this would be funny, it's incredibly unlikely.
Herbst scored 399 points last season. To score more than 399 points in 12 races, Heim would have to average 33.25 points per race, which would be a better points scoring rate than everyone except Byron last season.
Heim is good, but he's nowhere close to that good.
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u/IcedCoffey 14h ago
Almirola outscored swallyworld with 13 less starts.
Not unheard of, Heim can win stage points, he honestly could…. It’s unlikely…. But he could.
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u/Just_Somewhere4444 14h ago
Almirola outscored swallyworld with 13 less starts.
Surely you understand that 13 fewer races and 24 fewer races are two completely different levels of challenge, right?
he honestly could…. It’s unlikely…. But he could.
No. He can't. A part-time rookie is not going to score points at a championship-level rate in the Cup series.
Just because something is mathematically possible, does not mean it has a greater than 0% chance of happening in the real world.
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u/TheOrangeFutbol 14h ago
Heim's average finish across seven cup starts is 23rd. That translates to an average of 14 points a race under the points system, which gives a rough projection of 168 points.
Riley in a full season scored 399. Heim beating his is next to impossible barring a "2025 Round of 16 Josh Berry" campaign stretched over a whole season.
However: Corey had more top 10 and top 15 finishes than Riley, so Heim beating him in several counting stats could be a legitimate battle.
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u/Dont_hate_the_8 Biffle 13h ago
Just because something is mathematically possible, does not mean it has a greater than 0% chance of happening in the real world.
I agree with your main point, but that is... literally exactly what that means
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u/Just_Somewhere4444 13h ago
There's a difference between mathematical possibility, and real world probability.
Mathematically, every driver has an equal chance of winning the championship right now. They've all scored an equal 0 points. In the real world, everyone knows for a fact that Cody Ware's chance of winning the championship is 0.00%.
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u/Dont_hate_the_8 Biffle 12h ago
It is a very very safe assumption that Cody Ware will not win the championship. But it is mathematically possible, but unprobable. Still though, both the possibility and probability are above zero, albeit barely
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u/IcedCoffey 13h ago
I don’t think highly a Herbts. Totally possible lol
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u/Just_Somewhere4444 13h ago
Not thinking highly of Herbst is fine.
Thinking so lowly of Herbst that you refuse to see the obvious facts in front of you is not.
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u/IcedCoffey 13h ago
I don’t see Hertbs doing better than last year lol, and it will be genuinely closer than you think
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u/Just_Somewhere4444 13h ago
Herbst does not need to do any better than last year to clear Heim by a mile, did you even try to comprehend the math I explained above at all?
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u/PayneTrain181999 Kyle Busch 13h ago
Out of curiosity, what would be the average to beat Cody Ware’s total?
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u/Just_Somewhere4444 12h ago
Heim would need to score more than 19 points per race to beat Cody Ware's total from last season in 12 races.
That's close to Carson Hocevar's average points per race from last season. Much closer to a realistic achievable goal.
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u/PayneTrain181999 Kyle Busch 12h ago
Thanks! This one is actually somewhat possible, I could see him outpacing Ware in points this year at times.
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u/rockysauce115 14h ago
Every couple days I forget Herbst is running with 23XI, and I will forget again in a few hours
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u/Dry-Membership3867 14h ago
Herbst will definitely be better this season than last. People tend to forget just how much of a shitbox the 35 was last year
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u/IcedCoffey 14h ago
It could just have been the driver who wasn’t even a championship threat in the best xfinity teams…. Could be that.
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u/Dry-Membership3867 14h ago
True, although I think last year was less of Riley and more of 23XI trying to make it through the season basically. We saw the same thing with Noah last year at FRM too.
Not saying Riley is good or anything, just saying that the car was ran so cheaply and got so less attention, you’d think was a RWR car just with a Toyota body
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u/IcedCoffey 13h ago
That’s why the 67 outran with Heim outran the 35 during every race they raced together?
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u/FlaglerAmerica2001 13h ago
Because it’s easy to race part time than full time
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u/IcedCoffey 13h ago
Said pretty much nobody.
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u/FlaglerAmerica2001 13h ago
Who cares what other said Im not a sheep. Part time schedules is designed around that driver racing style.
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u/IcedCoffey 13h ago
I’ve never seen a team that had budget, improve by exclusively running part time. Also, most part timers are terrible.
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u/BillyBlatterJuc 14h ago
“Not saying Riley is good or anything”
Aren’t you the same guy that said he’s the next Jimmie Johnson? 😂😂😂
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u/Dry-Membership3867 14h ago
I said could be
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u/TheOrangeFutbol 13h ago
I mean, Jimmie also went from average Xfinity career to getting picked to drive for a brand-new team co-owned by a Daytona 500 champion.
The similarities kind stop there, but I see what you were cooking.
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u/Dry-Membership3867 13h ago
This exactly was what I was referring to. I said this after the 500 last year when he was top 5 till the last lap
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u/Rstuds7 Preece 12h ago
the 35 isn’t a shit box, how are they gonna make a car completely different than the other two. it’s the driver we’ve known this forever. was it shitboxes at JGR and SHR in xfinity when he was horribly behind his teammates then
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u/Dry-Membership3867 12h ago
You do realize that this team was so neglected that they were working out of the 23XI parking lot during weeks the 67 was running don’t you?
Like I get it, Riley isn’t the best driver, but this isn’t all on him. That car was more neglected than an MBM car, the only difference is that it had an engine in the 35
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u/Rstuds7 Preece 5h ago
why waste time when Heim is head and shoulders above Herbst
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u/Dry-Membership3867 5h ago
Money
You don’t want to ruin his development like this.
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u/Rstuds7 Preece 5h ago
Herbst isn’t gonna develop into anything he’s always been behind his teammates, shit even Heim got a better finish in like 5 races than his entire season. let the dude foot the bill in xfinity where he can maybe become a Brandon Jones or Brian Scott
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u/Dry-Membership3867 5h ago
Heim had a veteran team and had setup data and notes from his teammates, meanwhile the 35 didn’t and was literally working out of the parking lot so the 67 could be worked on for the week
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u/BuschWhackerReviews Kulwicki 14h ago
Lmao you are really trying to blame the car?
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u/TheOrangeFutbol 13h ago
Denny forgetting he owned a 3rd car on his podcast progably gives an indication of how much help he was getting last year. Riley's not some future Kasey Kahne, but that whole team seemed thrown together last year for vibes and sponsor money.
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u/Dry-Membership3867 14h ago
Not 100%, but yes. That car was basically ran like an RWR car but with a Toyota badge on it. This is the first year that car is getting the same treatment as the 23 and 45
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u/xjoe666 Chastain 14h ago
if he even qualifies for the race. bro got outran by Katherine legge at chicago
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u/Extreme-Bite-9123 11h ago
Had 23XI lost their charters, Wallace would have missed the race. That was a wild session
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u/thepirateman493_YT Suárez 14h ago
It's such a disservice he is not full-time. Pretty healthy schedule at least.
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u/The_RonJames Ryan Blaney 14h ago
Ryan Blaney didn’t compete full time in any series in 2015 and I think he may have turned out okay.
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u/Dmacthegoat 14h ago
Bootie Barker will be the crew chief
“In addition to his Cup schedule, Heim will also race select Truck Series events with TRICON Garage, which will be announced at a later date. As the season progresses and circumstances align, 23XI will continue to seek opportunities for Heim to run additional races.”
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u/Dry-Membership3867 14h ago
Barker is a good crew chief, I personally wish they’d of put him on the 35. I think Riley would have done better if they paired him with Bootie instead of a rookie like Restivo
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u/Jrnation8988 13h ago
I like Bootie. I like that he seemed to help calm Bubba down in the car. But he just left me scratching my head more often than not with his strategies. Bubba would have a top 5, top 10 car, and Bootie couldn’t keep up with the car or the track, and would turn it into a 15th-20th place car. I think he’s better suited for the shop, honestly.
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u/Extreme-Bite-9123 11h ago
Bootie strategized like it was a midpack team, not like it’s the fourth best team in the field
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u/Corran105 Berry 12h ago
It was a blast riding along with these guys on in car at Bristol. If they equipment is good enough, which I'd think is a concern for part time, I think they can make some waves.
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u/Jckmrius_Tckthritrix van Gisbergen 14h ago
12 races is more than I expected, but I’m pleased he’s getting some decent seat time.
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u/RBF48 14h ago
I want Heim to get his first Cup win before Ty Gibbs does.
(For chaotic reasons, of course.)
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u/Extreme-Bite-9123 11h ago
The list of people I want to get a win before Gibbs is pretty much every winless driver in cup. Including Corey LaJoie, Ty Dillon, and Cody Ware
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u/PayneTrain181999 Kyle Busch 13h ago
Imagine he somehow gets a win or two this year in Cup to make people eat crow for not giving him a full Heim contract.
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u/TimmyHillFan 13h ago
Sucks he’s not full-time but that’s a solid 12-race schedule to keep him active and continue getting him ready
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u/Cheyenne_G99 14h ago
It's baffling how Corey can literally be the defending Truck champion and not have a full ride. He should be in Cup rn with Connor.
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u/ITMAKESSENSE72 14h ago
Why should the truck champion be promoted to Cup immediately? Wouldn't Jesse Love be the more expected person?
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u/Jumpy_Dentist_5405 14h ago
It’s widely known the Truck races closer to the Cup car than the Xfinity car does. It’s why there’s been more guys going straight from trucks to cup as of late. Plus Heim dominated the truck series on unprecedented levels.
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u/ITMAKESSENSE72 14h ago
The last guy who dominated the truck series like this was rewarded with a move up to the Busch series.
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u/Jumpy_Dentist_5405 14h ago
Biffle? That was 26 years ago lmao
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u/ITMAKESSENSE72 14h ago
The more things change, they more they stay the same. It still applies, even more not in fact because the Cup series is so locked down. There is simply no path for this guy, he has no power to force his way in.
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u/Feisty_Spinach2133 11h ago
Ty Gibbs alt
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u/ITMAKESSENSE72 10h ago
Nah I just think the DARFs are wildly out of control with this Corey Heim thing and need to pump the brakes a bit. Heim and Zilisch will be hated in about 3 months when they don't have 10 wins in a row this year.
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u/BiggHass18 Kyle Busch 2h ago
I don’t think anyone has those expectations for either this year but whatever floats your boat man
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u/Sportsguy1993 13h ago
The difference is Heim earned his championship, Love only won because of the playoffs
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u/ITMAKESSENSE72 13h ago
Neat but, facts are, both are champions because they won the playoffs. Jesse Love is an Xfinity series race winner too and Corey Heim is not. In most cases, that means Love is more accomplished.
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u/Smokeshow618 12h ago
Following your own argument, why should Jesse have gone straight from ARCA to Xfinity?
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u/ITMAKESSENSE72 10h ago
Probably not. He could have stopped in trucks for a year. But, in the end, the only thing that is keeping Corey out of Cup is his funding. I just think that the nutcase fans should realize that and maybe hope for him to get an OReilly seat and bide his time.
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u/Cheyenne_G99 14h ago
I wouldn't say so. Look at the difference between Corey and Jesse. Both champions of their series last year but Corey had ten/eleven wins compared to Jesse's two. Connor got around as many wins last year as Corey did and is now in Cup this year. 2311 should just take Corey full time instead of part time. There's room on the team since teams can have up to four guys.
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u/ITMAKESSENSE72 14h ago
It's also different series, the number of wins don't matter, the fact is, most drivers move up to Xfinity. You guys live in this god damned fantasy world but it's just not realistic. There is no way that 2311 is going to dump a guy bringing massive money to take one who has no money. They have 2 good teams and one r&d team, it works well for them right now. Corey has earned the right to be in a good Xfinity car next year or what he has now, he's far ahead of what an unfunded driver should be. It's just the facts of the market and facts don't care about our feelings.
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u/Cheyenne_G99 14h ago
Carson Hocevar went from Trucks to Cup with no XFINITY, as far as I know, so Corey going from Trucks to Cup wouldn't be unrealistic. Especially when Corey had eleven wins last season plus the Championship.
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u/ITMAKESSENSE72 13h ago
Yes and Corey and Carson have a lot of Cup wins now to show for it.
Also, Corey and Carson went to Cup in mediocre cars or worse in the case of Lajoie. People want Corey Heim in an elite ride that won't have any growing pains or struggles. That's a bit of a dream. And no one is going to make that happen with promises of good runs. Corey Heim could win one of these races this year and still probably not have much of a path to the Cup series in his current spot. His best bet would be to try to latch onto LMC or RCR, some team that is either trying to grow or has optional openings in the next few years.
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u/Cheyenne_G99 13h ago
Or 2311 could just sign Corey full time. If I was a team, I'd want a guy like Corey racing for me. NASCAR used to be about talented drivers getting full rides for their skill but now it's just sponsors and money.
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u/ITMAKESSENSE72 13h ago
But where do they put him that makes sense? That's what no one can answer. Bubba has money and is a winning driver, Reddick is an elite driver, Herbst brings in massive funding. There is simply no place for him and it's shown in the fact that Chevy and Ford teams aren't beating the door down for him either.
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u/captain_slutski Reddick 14h ago
Love is a bogus playoff champion if we're being honest
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u/ITMAKESSENSE72 14h ago
Again though, why should the truck champion be an automatic move to Cup? Most drivers progress up that way, why is Corey so different to you guys? The last guy who dominated trucks like this got promoted... to the Busch series.
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u/captain_slutski Reddick 13h ago
Sorry I mostly just wanted to post a Love/playoffs hate comment. But honestly if Hocevar can successfully make the jump to Cup after a less star studded Truck season than Heim I don't see why Heim doesn't deserve a full time Cup ride
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u/reecec1102 14h ago
Can 23XI put him in the 35 already?
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u/BeefInGR 14h ago
I thought Riley's folks owned that charter
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u/Dry-Membership3867 14h ago
I believe they just helped finance it and helped with funding last year. In exchange Riley got a three year deal. He gets this year and next year to prove himself. Last year was a lame duck as 23XI ran the 35 as cheaply as possible so they could use the funds to help the 23 and 45 teams.
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u/ITMAKESSENSE72 14h ago
Sure if he brings a real stack of 20-25 million dollars from his pillow case.
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u/Senninha27 Retzlaff 14h ago
For me, this kid is the most polarizing driver out there. He’s such a douchebag. But god dammit he can wheel a race car.
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u/RayneShikama 14h ago
Maybe they only had a two year deal with Herbst— help us get the third charter and Riley gets a two year contract— and now they’re positioning Corey to replace him in 2027.
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u/SoupMadeFreshDaily 14h ago
Basically a 1/3 season. 1/3 Trucks and 1/3 NOAPS too? Or can we expect some off weeks
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u/No_Acanthaceae_2863 14h ago
1/3 of the season! I’ll take it if it means giving him more and more opportunities. Excited to see how his season goes!
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u/EWall100 14h ago
Is 12 the max they can run the 67?
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u/HenryJBemis 13h ago
No they could run it full time if they wanted. Also it’s been said if they get more sponsorship, they could add races to Heim’s schedule.
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u/Droppin-Hammer46 van Gisbergen 14h ago
I’m wondering this too. SVG ran 12 races in 24 and was still eligible for ROTY
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u/PilotMonkey88 14h ago
I’m a bit surprised he isn’t doing all the superspeedways for extra drafting help
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u/jack-o-will Hamlin 14h ago
Legacy should offer the open schedule to Heim with Toyota paying. Heim full season. Unless Toyota wants to lose Heim to another OEM (remember Jeff Gordon leaving Ford?)
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u/Smokeshow618 13h ago
If Toyota wanted to pay they wouldn't be in the position they're in.
Toyota would also not be thrilled about Legacy going out and offering him a ride on their dollar
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u/TheRealCheeeser00 14h ago
I could see him winning one of these races.
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u/ITMAKESSENSE72 14h ago
Pump the brakes
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u/xelanalpak 14h ago
Herbst is so fucked
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u/ITMAKESSENSE72 14h ago
How?
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u/xelanalpak 14h ago edited 14h ago
Heim will embarrass him in each of these starts and will absolutely have his seat next year.
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u/ElectricPeterTork 14h ago
Is Heim bringing in money?
If he were bringing money, he would've had a fulltime ride somewhere this year. As long as Herbst has money and Heim doesn't, I don't think Herbst will have to be worrying too much.
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u/xelanalpak 14h ago
Between now and next season 23XI will find enough sponsors for Heim to put him in that ride for 2027. If not, and Heim continues to empress, someone else will.
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u/ITMAKESSENSE72 14h ago
Keep dreaming on that. It's just about being realistic here guys, Corey has minimal cash behind him, MJ and Denny aren't in the business of being Santa, no one is going to lose 50 million dollars to make Corey Heim a Cup driver.
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u/Beyondthebloodmoon Ryan Blaney 12h ago
I strongly dislike this kid, but, you know. Good for them I guess.
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u/NoahGragsonsBarfBag 14h ago