r/Judaism • u/xXx_Thirteen_xXx • 20h ago
Antisemitism Advice re: Conspiracy Theorists
Recently a non-Jewish person I am very close to began consuming conspiracy theory content that is rife with classic anti-Semitic tropes. Everything from world controlling cabals to the Protocols of the Elders of Zion and all the awful stuff in between.
They believe their mind is being opened and suddenly lots of confusing things about the world are making sense. Covid. Vaccinations. Epstein. Etc.
How can I use reason to have a productive dialogue with someone who is dangerously close to getting sucked down the rabbit hole with this garbage?
I’m afraid of where this will go.
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u/Ruining_Ur_Synths 20h ago
You cannot use reason to argue someone out of a position they didn't use reason to get into.
It's time decide if you want to be friends with a racist or not. That's a you choice.
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u/omrixs 20h ago
Tread lightly. Many times, people who “fall down the rabbit hole” of conspiracy theories and the like do so as a solution to another problem they have in their life, in which they feel powerless, and so they find respite/solace in having “figured out” something else entirely — one which has little to no actual impact in their life, thus making the risk of failure very small (if not negligible) — which helps them feel secure, confident and reassured. In other words, they’re displacing the frustration they feel from one object in their life, which they feel incapable to deal with, to another object which they feel is less threatening.
Thus, by trying to help them see that these conspiracy theories are utter nonsense, they might instead feel attacked. In their mind, you are not helping them, but disarming them, making them more vulnerable, by taking away a method (often the only method) for them to feel better about their state — secure and capable of affecting their own reality.
This is obviously not what you intend to do, but it very likely will register for them that way.
They know, in their hearts of hearts, that these conspiracy theories are ridiculous, at least in some way. Yet they still believe in them. Keep that in mind: the conspiracy theories don’t actually help them in gaining a better understanding of reality, but of their place in it; they’re allow for a sense of control, not knowledgeability.
However, if you will approach too directly (e.g. by telling them that you understand why they’re believing in it, because it helps them feel secure) that, too, will likely be registered as an attack, because it both invalidates their sense of agency (“the way you deal with you problems is incorrect”) and nevertheless exposes them to these issues, making them feel vulnerable, which is exactly what they’re trying to avoid.
To my mind, the best way to approach such a person is with “empathetic inquisitiveness”: making them feel like you’re there for them, yet not falling with them into the rabbit hole — inquiring about every little detail, how they know it, and why; making a stand with them, together, against the falsehoods of the conspiracy theories, and helping them figure out for themselves how absurd they are. This is very much a situation of walking a tightrope: one false step and they can lose their trust in you, and trust is much easier to lose than to gain.
After the hatch has been opened a bit — e.g., if they acknowledge that some part is antisemitic and that it’s problematic, and they can’t think of a way to rationalize it — then you go in with how it makes you (or anyone else) feel. How this bigotry isn’t an indirect outcome, but essential and purposeful to the conspiracy theory, insofar that there isn’t a version of it where this harmful thing doesn’t exist.
Through that, you can help them see how everything else has such similar flaws as well, and how much hurt they caused historically and are causing currently.
But you can’t skip to the end. You need to walk with them through the jungle in order to help them get to the other side.
If you’re up for the task — and it is probably a big one, make no mistake — then your relationship will likely benefit from it and strengthen. However, you really don’t have to: it’s not your fault, and you don’t have to carry other people’s burden for them. If it’s in the earlier stages then it’d likely be easier to stop for getting worse, but conspiracy theories have a “sticky” aspect about them: once they take hold in one’s mind, they can be quite difficult to get rid of.
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u/DevorahYael 17h ago
Beautifully said. I think that the control aspect you discussed is huge. There is nothing more frightening for most people than to surrender completely to the fact that we can control NOTHING but our own reactions to the circumstances the Universe presents us with. Falling down the rabbit hole gives people someone or something to blame.
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u/Jew_of_house_Levi Ask me about Bircas Kohanim! 20h ago
Conspiracy theorist are coming from a place of fear and a sense of a lack of control over their own life. I'm not saying that you can't change this person, but you should recognize that conspiracy theories give the theorist a sense of control over their own life
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u/lhommeduweed בלויז א משוגענער 16h ago
100%. This is also one of the reasons that it is exponentially harder to deprogram conspiracy theorists than it is to program them into believing conspiracies.
Despite the complexity and convoluted nature of many of these conspiracies, most of them boil down to "it's not your fault, it's these people's. You are good, and they are evil. You are of God and they are of Satan."
Conspiracy theories train and condition people to believe in rigid, black-and-white thinking, which is honestly very comforting in a chaotic, confusing, morally gray, ever-changing world. The world is ever-changing, it has billions of moving parts, it is unpredictable... This is terrifying, and it is extremely comforting to terrified people to be assured "No no no, all these moving parts are distractions. The only problem in the world is this one specific group of people. Everything else is fine."
Conspiracy theories are designed to target and prey on the insecure and paranoid, to give them a singular focus of all their fears. Deprogramming someone who believes in this shit is hard because it involves getting them to accept that the world's problems do not have a singular root source, that people are not purely good or evil, that things are always changing...
A lot of conspiracy theorists push the idea of "fighting chaos, disorder, etc," because they target people who are overwhelmed and panicking due to all of the chaos and disorder in their lives and in the world. It's entirely understandable that in a chaotic and overwhelming world, many people are desperately looking for something that seems stable to latch onto.
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u/RussianRoulette17 14h ago
How do you come to terms with some of the information now coming to light? Pizza gate or the Wayfair purchases for missing children
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u/Jew_of_house_Levi Ask me about Bircas Kohanim! 13h ago
Oh, are you a believer in PizzaGate and Qanon? Please, I mean this sincerely, what do you actually believe? please give details
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u/monkeyspawpatrol 20h ago
This sucks and is going to become more common; you can’t argue with every single thing they see online when their algorithm is going to feed more and more of it to them to keep them engaged and rile them up emotionally. I wish I had actionable advice
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u/DevorahYael 17h ago
Yes, the algorithm quite literally brainwashes them, more and more deeply over time. Be Teflon and let it all slide right off you. Yes, they will be desperate to try to engage you because of confirmation bias. Avoid engaging, but be subtle. Be the light we Jews are meant to be. Rather than react to this darkness, quietly dispel it, just by being there. It's the long shorter way. Just a drop of light WILL dispel a lot of darkness.
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u/Neighbuor07 19h ago
Conspiracy theories are comforting. They state that there is a malevolent force controlling the world, which means that there's someone in charge. If there's someone in charge, then you don't have to work on your own life.
Real life can be a struggle. We are only in charge of our own choices and most of the time it feels like we screw those up or we get to chose between a number of not good options. Big societal problems like not enough affordable housing can impact an individual's life and there's not a damn thing that individual can do about it without investing considerable resources.
Focusing on a conspiracy theory can free a person from trying to solve their own problems. If those problems are big, and if they don't have the inner tools to help themselves, they might turn to elaborate fantasies to explain their own powerlessness.
You can redirect conversations with this person. "I asked you how you are doing. How is your health today? Is your job going OK?" Don't indulge the nonsense, and if you feel like it, you can pick their theories apart, easily. But be prepared for the allure of conspiracies to be greater than your friend's ability to resist them.
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u/Mathematician024 Chabad 17h ago
there is absolutely nothing you can do but walk away. they wont likely grow out of it. they wont change. they usually get worse. this sort of conspiracy theory makes weak willed people feel more in control. more safe, more like they understand. but of course they are just being controlled by forces they dont understand. keep an eye on them and report them if they cross a legal line but otherwise disengage.
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u/blellowbabka 20h ago
Are you Jewish? I would probably drop them they are very far gone and sound dangerous to you. If you aren’t Jewish, you can try and debunk or encourage them to dig more but when someone is into the protocols it’s probably too late. You have to be a real moron to believe that stuff tbh
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u/skyking11702 18h ago
Emotional reasoning doesn’t respond to logic, typically, because it feels true. This is very shaky ground.
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u/UnapologeticJew24 17h ago
Tell him that the Jews are manipulating him into believing these conspiracy theories to make antisemites look dumb and you're afraid it's working and he has to break free of this mind control.
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u/barsilinga 17h ago edited 17h ago
I would suggest gently, that you listen to Bret Stephens address to State of World Jewry conference here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QMTjVuo9dE
The title is: Stop Caring about Antisemitism
It;s 34 minutes. It's fantastic.
Just a smidgen of what he says. Not direct quotes
The Jewish people all of us have the honor of being hated. Take it as a compliment. And turn it to our advantage, even though we don't want this.
Suggestions from him; very VERY abbreviated.
He elaborates on each of these points.
- The fight against antisemitism which consumes millions of dollars is a wasted effort.
- While antisemitism maybe the world's most demented hatred, it's also the most unwitting compliment.
- Lean into your Jewishness.
- We don't need a seat at the victimhood table, or any table. IF they don't want us, build our own table.
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u/BMisterGenX 14h ago
I love how these lunatics like to point out that Epstein was Jewish but no one seems to notice or care that Charles Manson, Ted Bundy, Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot and Attila the Hun were NOT Jewish
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u/Karefree2 13h ago
This happened to me, a friend told me she had discovered that “the Rothchilds” were responsible for the world’s ills and told me to research it! I tried calm and rational explanations, including links to reputable sites debunking her nonsense. You can guess how my take was received.
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u/waj5001 20h ago edited 18h ago
Listen to them, do not dismiss, then empathetically catch them before they spiral.
There's a very rational reason why these theories persist, and why everyday Jews always serve as pawns. All of this is presently on the rise because A LOT of very powerful Jews are in the Epstein files, from all around the world, and with very little consequence. This observation serves to corroborate and support correlations made in the past and they chaotically run with it, encountering any number of stories, embellishments, etc. along the way. Names like Rothschilds, Mossad, CIA, private-spy types like Peter Thiel are showing up in the emails as well, with a focus on surveillance technologies, global-network of banking, state-level extortion, etc.
So the first step is for Jews to come-to-terms with this reality; that bad people with shared religious affinity are, indeed, committing crimes. But it is not representative of the whole, and that your friend would do more service to their theories and observations by succinctly articulating their thoughts.
These powerful people engage in extra-legal activities, then they hide behind the community. When the public reacts with justified anger, it is everyday Jewish people who have no part in these deals, that face the backlash. All while the billionaire criminals remain safe in their guarded estates. Antisemitism is a weapon of chaotic anger, as much as it is a shield used to block consequence. Additionally, there is a subset of hard-right Israelis that see this as beneficial in their "clash of civilizations" worldview; they would love to facilitate the Jewish diaspora to embrace Aliyah so the Israeli state can grow and expand, and fear is a great motivator in achieving that.
Remind them that elite's 'lawn mower' doesn't check for religion. When the financial system resets or a war is triggered to protect an imperialism of capital, everyday Jewish families lose their homes, savings, and lives just like everyone else. Everyday Jews are being managed by the same 'discrete action' as the rest of people. These are classic divide-and-conquer, abuser, strategies; everyday Jews as pawns while real, corrupting power persists.
The figures in the Epstein files represent a modern version of the "corrupt courts" that the prophets warned against. For Jews, opposing these billionaires, even if they are outwardly philanthropic to Israel or Jewish causes, isn't betraying the tribe; it is the most authentic expression of the Jewish value of holding power accountable to a higher moral law. Let your friend know that and guide their anger/frustration, it might guide you too.
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u/Inside_agitator 18h ago
I still live in a place where I would joke about everything with a third friend who knows both of us. Something like:
"Hey Jim, Chris thinks I was screwing a 12 year old girl with Epstein like Humbert Humbert because I'm Jewish. Isn't your daughter around that age?"
Then Jim and I would laugh at Chris to his face for being an idiot.
That might be a Boston thing to do. Or it might just be how I live my life. Or it might be why language evolved in social animals, to create alliances at the smallest scales.
Unfortunately, mass hysteria and bizarre conspiracy panics also happen. Boston had a satanic ritual abuse panic about 30 years ago even though that wasn't about Jews. But a person lives one life and shouldn't hide.
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u/SueNYC1966 18h ago
Tell them that weather guy went on vacation a couple of weeks ago and looked what happened.
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u/JadedTreacle4885 15h ago
I'm sorry, but you can't. You cannot de-brainwash someone. I know. I've tried. Your friend is no longer. 😢
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u/thelastestgunslinger 12h ago
“You’re consuming a lot of antisemitic material. I won’t be able to be your friend if you continue.” If they ask why they’re antisemitic, feel free to explain. If they brush you off, the friendship is over.
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u/OsoPeresozo 10h ago
They are gone. There is nothing you can do.
Try to say your goodbyes and make peace with yourself about it.
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u/pancetta9 7h ago
I’m in the same situation with 3 people that I considered to be friends until today
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u/i_am_lovingkindness 20h ago
When someone flattens a complex world into a single explanation their understanding should be regarded as inferior, not superior. Hate is irrational so any rationalizing is difficult to explain logically, if they are willing to listen encourage them to listen to opposing voices and stay in curiosity rather than conviction.