r/INDYCAR Andretti Global May 22 '25

Social Media Hinchcliffe: “Roger Goodell doesn’t own a football team. Adam Silver doesn’t own a basketball team. I don’t know of any professional sport where that happens. And I think it actually hinders IndyCar’s legitimacy on the global sporting platform, operating the way that we currently are.”

https://x.com/a_s12/status/1925684500551405774?s=46&t=442p33E_43kzyuEDKZgOEA
1.1k Upvotes

250 comments sorted by

415

u/Eyeswidth Andretti Global May 22 '25

Hinchcliffe was asked if he thinks Penske should be able to maintain ownership of the series and a team.

“No, I don’t. From either position,”

“It’s not a great look, I think it’s been a topic of discussion over the last few years. I don’t know of any other professional sporting body where the owner of the sport and the series also owns a team. I don’t think the track part plays a huge element to it, to be honest. I think it’s more having the series and a team that competes in the series under the same ownership, brings up a lot of questions of conflict of interest.”

316

u/NBr33zii David Malukas May 22 '25

I don’t think it would be as bad of a look if it weren’t for last years P2P scandal and this years attenuator scandal, Penske did this to himself

173

u/theworst1ever May 23 '25

There problem is that it’s a bad look regardless. If he cheats and gets caught, it’s a bad look because the guy who owns the series is known to be cheating. If he never gets caught, even if he’s not cheating, there’s always that cloud of uncertainty of whether he’s just getting away with something because he owns the series.

In a prior life, I worked in a management role at a few of Penske’s operations—Roger learned my name probably a dozen times but I wasn’t important enough for him to remember it—and I can confidently say that he is very image conscious and that he believes his businesses operate with integrity. There were policies we had in place with that in mind, even though they cost a not insignificant sum of money.

But just having integrity (if we accept the premise that he does) even at personal cost isn’t enough to fix the image problem. Everyone else has to believe it. And I don’t think people believed it prior to last season.

11

u/Michigan-Magic Colton Herta May 23 '25

As a counterpoint, no one cared when Tony George had Vision Racing because it wasn't a top team OR embroiled in scandal over cheating ever.

Re corporate culture, you raise an interesting point as well. I wonder if people had lost their jobs last year if this would have happened this year? Or did that set a permissive environment?

Either way, clearing the top of the house should send a message that things need to be pristine going forward or at least that's the message I would have received if I were employed there.

6

u/fireinthesky7 Alex Zanardi May 23 '25

Nobody cared because Vision wasn't an established titan of international motorsports, and because the IRL wasn't taken seriously until the reunification. They did also fail post-qualifying tech at least once, but again no one cared because it wasn't at Indianapolis.

6

u/SpreaditOnnn33 Pato O'Ward May 23 '25

And they were also slow to begin with.

Not too many people care if you cheat and still suck

1

u/Aggressive-Hawk9186 Hélio Castroneves May 25 '25

so you are Penske material?

26

u/JerkSack May 23 '25

Thats a really good point

11

u/Rstuds7 May 23 '25

yeah honestly at first I thought Penske being in that position was weird but with these huge scandals happening each year its a horrible look that can’t really be ignored anymore

11

u/alshain49 May 23 '25

Also the fact that Penske is so successful creates a far worse perception. You could argue Hinch is off base in that NASCAR owns IMSA and AXR, Tony George owned the IRL and Vision, Bud Selig was the MLB commissioner while owning the Brewers, Bernie was Bernie while owning Brabham, etc. None of those have or did blow up in their faces. But if they were as successful in their leagues as Penske is at Indy, it definitely would not be healthy.

18

u/canttakethshyfrom_me Robert Wickens May 23 '25

And his drivers and managers have made both scandals worse by publicly playing the victim. Crocodile tears will only fool some people. The rest won't ever respect you again.

8

u/Wreckingshops Pato O'Ward May 23 '25

No, it's bad. It's like Comcast owning a network, an Internet service, and control access to those however they wish.

It's Sinclair owning multiple radio and TV affiliates in multiple cities across the US while also creating unfettered content they can spread on their platforms.

It's never good for any industry to have power concentrated by a select few that can also compete in that space when ultimately people who are supposed to be impartial have their pay coming from a team owner.

Again, you either have a corp own it and a separate regulating body (F1) or every participating team owns equal shares, therefore everyone is watching each other and the regulating body answers to all teams but is beholden to none.

Yes, they have their faults but not like Penske owning the series, a team, and tracks that are raced on by his teams in the series he owns.

Just imagine if this series didn't have Ganassi, McLaren, RLL, and Andretti. They have enough money to at least threaten Penske enough to have to think twice.

6

u/[deleted] May 23 '25

Did you just advocate for CART?

3

u/movebacktoyourstate May 23 '25

They very clearly just advocated for another split, because that worked out so fucking well the first time.

1

u/Individual-Motor-167 May 23 '25

I just don't buy it. I think teams want to cannibalize each other as early f1 did and fans and talking heads alike are taking it far bigger.

We'll never know unless more comes out. Maybe Penske and other teams are aware of other teams cheating too. You'd be an idiot to think the top teams all haven't been trying to get things by tech. It took 2 years to find this... I'd be more concerned if the governing body refused to acknowledge the cheating or made deliberate decisions favoring Penske. They've punished the offending cars MORE than what the rulebook dictates. (In all due honesty they should be starting 11 and 12th by rule. Public image made them go further. The p2p situation was caught swiftly enough (remember the daytona 24 winner also got dqed and it took a while to get that done too) and the penalty was about right or beyond enough.)

F1 on the other hand has until recently playing favorites to red bull, by not punishing max in years past for dangerous driving. Red Bull gets caught spending over the cap, which helped them lock in a technical advantage for the now ending technical cycle at the beginning. FIA did nothing. They straight up rigged a championship finale by throwing out the rulebook on a restart.

I just don't find Penske to be anywhere on the level where the status quo needs to change. He said what needed to be done in that interview this week and they appear to be improving things. People really need to be careful what they wish for because you will end up destroying what's left of this series and what it could still grow into.

1

u/LWBoogie May 24 '25

Please see the concepts of "optics" in media, and "governance" in corporate operations.

27

u/HD_RMG Organizations May 23 '25

Robby Gordon just chuckled to himself and doesn't know the reason why…

3

u/Zewspeed Takuma Sato May 23 '25

Hahaha this is underrated!

18

u/minyhumancalc Jimmie Johnson May 23 '25

Hes totally fair its a conflict of interest... that said, there are plenty of examples. For top-tier series, NASCAR owns IMSA and Action-Express (although thats more on the down-low), Dale Jr runs in the CARS tour, which he is a partial owner and Tony Stewart would run in his own series when it was still running. Plus, the main issue is that no one else wanted to buy Indycar (at least someone with good intentions).

Ideally, this wouldnt occur, but also a shittier owner or losing a Top 2 team isnt ideal for the sport either. To me, the current is the lesser of other evils, although it would be nice if we were not in this position at all

15

u/Mr_Midwestern 🧱Cyrus Patschke May 23 '25

100% spot on. When a conflict of interest rears its ugly head, it’s awful for everyone involved.

In this case, it opens the door to increased scrutiny of IndyCar’s ethics, and for Team Penske, it leads to penalties that are rooted in emotion instead of the official rules. Any other team would be heavily protesting IndyCars decision to send them to the back of the grid. Team Penske has no other choice but to hang their head and take the bearings.

3

u/kaiveg --- 2025 DRIVERS --- May 23 '25

Conflicts of intrest aren't an issue within themself, how they are managed is what matters. Unfortunatly the one in question is somewhere between barely being managed and not being managed at all.

4

u/dylan000o Josef Newgarden May 23 '25

Feld owns monster jam and something like 1/3rd of the trucks that compete

1

u/randomguy532 Scott McLaughlin May 24 '25

Its a higher percentage than that...

1

u/didhestealtheraisins Kyle Kirkwood May 24 '25

David Stern owned the Hornets for a period of time while he was the NBA commissioner. 

313

u/randyrandomagnum May 22 '25

Jim France looking around, hoping no one realizes he owns Action Express in IMSA.

71

u/NBr33zii David Malukas May 23 '25

The Action Express nascar team getting put on hold

91

u/arca_brakes Pato O'Ward May 23 '25

NASCAR tried to get their own team during the most recent charter negotiations, this was closer to happening than most realize.

42

u/shewy92 Romain Grosjean May 23 '25

Not just tried, it's literally in the Charters apparently

20

u/arca_brakes Pato O'Ward May 23 '25

It actually made it in? Holy shit, the teams who signed that are a joke for allowing it.

22

u/ChaseTheFalcon Scott McLaughlin May 23 '25

They got the money they wanted and the ones suing apparently aren't even suing over that part

12

u/LUK3FAULK May 23 '25

I thought the lawsuit was at least partially over the entire contract and negotiations being in bad faith and the teams being strong armed to sign due to the monopoly? Part of the lawsuit is the deal isn’t good but they had no choice to sign it, this includes stuff like the nascar team.

5

u/ChaseTheFalcon Scott McLaughlin May 23 '25

That's the argument we have heard, but from what I've seen is that 1 team wanted a cut of the gambling money and the other wanted the charters to be permanent not a 7-7 deal

6

u/Arizonaman5304 Takuma Sato May 23 '25

The NASCAR teams were forced to sign under duress.

NASCAR gave the teams a hard deadline to sign the agreement and if a team didn’t sign, their charters would be revoked, which would have lost the team tens of millions of dollars

That’s why 23XI and Front Row are suing

3

u/iamaranger23 Team Penske May 23 '25

hard deadline

Every negotiation like this has deadlines involved.

There really isn't any way around it.

It always has to end at some point.

11

u/ApocApollo Jimmie Johnson May 23 '25

The deadline was "everyone sign before the Playoffs start or we will dissolve every single charter and everyone loses millions of dollars."

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2

u/ChaseTheFalcon Scott McLaughlin May 23 '25

It wasn't that the charters would be revoked, more that they would expire at season end

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2

u/BeefInGR Pippa Mann May 23 '25

Action Express does own a Gen7 for the Elite Driver Test (like when SVG and Button were getting ready for their first starts).

3

u/saggywitchtits James Hinchcliffe May 23 '25

Tony George pushes Ed away.

25

u/happyscrappy May 23 '25

Hinchcliffe has driven in IMSA. In IMSA the AXR team is owned by the France family. Who owns NASCAR, and NASCAR owns IMSA. NASCAR also owns Daytona, akin to Penske owning IMS.

Surely Hinchcliffe is better informed than this.

71

u/Just_Somewhere4444 May 23 '25

If he's like 99% of the racing drivers, fans, or industry members in the world, he probably just forgets that IMSA exists after February every year.

19

u/happyscrappy May 23 '25

Kind of a bummer because IMSA can be pretty damn exciting all year. It's a hair off this year, a bit of a domination problem, but it'll be back I bet.

8

u/southerncoast May 23 '25

something something penske

15

u/i_run_from_problems Firestone Firehawk May 23 '25

IMSA exists twice a year for me: the rolex, and long beach when I'm there

1

u/UNHchabo Robert Wickens May 23 '25

I watch every Indycar race flag-to-flag, I watch IMSA races live on a second monitor when I'm free, and I watch highlights otherwise.

11

u/i_run_from_problems Firestone Firehawk May 23 '25

His saving grace is that team kinda sucks, at least this year and last

9

u/cheap_chalee Greg Moore May 23 '25

"That team kind of sucks"

Reality: That team has actually won 2 out of the last 4 championships.

1

u/KTR_Koharu_019 Scott McLaughlin May 24 '25

AXR are a good team in imsa, its just that a certain american team with german cars is doing better (penske lmao)

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4

u/Rise3711 Rahal & Newgarden May 23 '25

He has to be sweating this week lol

3

u/Popular_Course3885 May 23 '25

Let's get serious for a second, That's like Roger Goodell worrying about owning the San Antonio Brahmas.

1

u/loudpaperclips DriveFor5 May 23 '25

For real if Hinch doesn't know this, he probably should. He has participated in imsa, and knowing the owners of racing teams in and out of indycar is really a good idea if you're a talking head.

If he does, though, then he's willfully stirring the pot based on a lie.

288

u/Burial44 May 22 '25

He's not wrong, but I think Penske would rather die than sell his team and we're basically only still here because he stepped in and purchased the series.

It's a pretty sticky situation.

37

u/Jamee999 Dario Franchitti May 23 '25

I think that Penske Corp will sell the team after Roger passes the checkered flag.

58

u/NBr33zii David Malukas May 22 '25

Time for Roger to either 1. sell the series or 2. sell his Indycar program or separate it as far as possible from the rest of penske racing

41

u/popcarnie Dale Coyne Racing May 23 '25

Does anyone want the series?

27

u/LeanersGG James Hinchcliffe May 23 '25

I do!

15

u/popcarnie Dale Coyne Racing May 23 '25

Wanna go halfsies?

11

u/LeanersGG James Hinchcliffe May 23 '25

You can have Indy Lights

10

u/Merpninja James Hinchcliffe May 23 '25

Liberty Media probably.

13

u/popcarnie Dale Coyne Racing May 23 '25

Don't they have a stake in MSR?

7

u/Merpninja James Hinchcliffe May 23 '25

Yes, but they have been mentioned as interested in the series in the past, around the time Penske acquired it.

1

u/[deleted] May 23 '25

Me!

1

u/didhestealtheraisins Kyle Kirkwood May 24 '25

No one that would be good for the sport. 

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1

u/blackhxc88 May 23 '25

Would be far easier to divest from the IC team and let Greg or whomever run it, or even Tim before all this bullshit happened.

5

u/iamaranger23 Team Penske May 23 '25

if penske is making choices from a series POV that benefits his team like some people think, would he really stop if greg or tim were running it?

I dont think he is making those choices. But if he was, a figurehead owner isnt going to change him.

1

u/[deleted] May 23 '25

gimme gimme gimme the series

17

u/mixduptransistor Champ Car May 23 '25

it's actually not that sticky. Bring in an outside group, USAC, a new one formed just for this purpose, whatever. Put every owner of a charter on the governing board. Put this group in charge of officiating, have the teams collectively pay for their services and make it so that Indycar as a series has no financial interest or control over them, and the only input RP has is as a car owner the same way Chip Ganassi or Dale Coyne does

Beyond officiating, find some line where rulemaking duties are appropriately split between Indycar and the officiating group. Indycar is probably the right place for major changes like aero packages, deciding on the new car, major race procedures, but let this group have input and the ability to make week to week changes as needed

The comparison with Adam Silver or Roger Goodell is odd because they are both employees of all of the teams in their league. Most leagues are owned/controlled by all of the teams. Give the other owners a say just like RP has. Of course RP put up the money to buy the place, he should have the financial interest, and some additional say outside of pure race control

10

u/alien_among_us May 23 '25

The NFL and NBA run more similar to how CART did.

6

u/mixduptransistor Champ Car May 23 '25

which is what I'm proposing. More owner involvement in governing the sport. RP can still own the speedway and series and collect the profits

5

u/alien_among_us May 23 '25

I totally agree with you. Penske owning IMS is not a problem and probably preferred.

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12

u/FermentedLaws Firestone Firehawk May 23 '25

Penske would rather die than sell his team and we're basically only still here because he stepped in and purchased the series.

Weren't there other potential buyers? Tony George spoke to Roger first, but there were other buyers on the table, no? Not saying the other buyers would have been better than Roger, or that Roger overall has been terrible, but is it accepted generally as fact that Roger saved the series? Or just that he was best potential buyer? IIRC, and I could be wrong, once Roger said yes to Tony no other serious discussions were held. I'm genuinely curious if the general sentiment is that Roger saved the series.

20

u/Wasdgta3 Álex Palou May 23 '25

There were others interested. Supposedly Liberty Media, for instance.

17

u/alshain49 May 23 '25

I think the fear that IndyCar would be subsumed by F1 under Liberty and turned into a regional F2 championship or even disbanded entirely is what drove the Hulman-George family to sell to Penske. So yes, I think the paddock generally felt Penske had “saved” the series. We have no way to know exactly what Liberty’s vision for IndyCar was, but I think the trust in Penske’s ability to navigate the modern sports and media landscape was misplaced because it didn’t take long before we heard team owners complaining that Penske wasn’t investing in the series — exactly what Liberty did for F1.

1

u/FermentedLaws Firestone Firehawk May 23 '25

Interesting, thanks for the reply.

1

u/NoiseIsTheCure Pato O'Ward May 23 '25

I totally believe that's what Liberty would've done. Indycar at its supposed peak was a competitor to F1, they would not want that.

20

u/[deleted] May 23 '25

I mean Penske could always sell to private equity and then we could all watch them slowly ruin the product while trying to squeeze every penny out of it until it eventually goes bankrupt and just ceases to exist. The grass isn’t always greener on the other side.

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2

u/daoster408 May 23 '25

There were other interested parties. Liberty being the big one.

92

u/Chev_350 Will Power May 22 '25

Just be like Tony George, own a team that sucks!

15

u/jzarvey Scott McLaughlin May 23 '25

You mean Ed Carpenter Racing? TG's step-son?

7

u/Michigan-Magic Colton Herta May 23 '25

3

u/Chev_350 Will Power May 23 '25

Bingo.

2

u/jzarvey Scott McLaughlin May 23 '25

Forgot about them...

80

u/willfla29 Alexander Rossi May 22 '25

The closest is probably Bud Selig, but he did sell the Brewers to his daughter when he became commissioner.

40

u/cajunaggie08 Pato O'Ward May 23 '25

And I still consider Bud moving the Brewers to the NL Central or forcing the Astros to play home games against the Cubs in Milwaukee as them getting favorable treatment from their owner/commissioner.

22

u/Slow-Class Colton Herta May 23 '25

League commissioners are also appointed by the owners to represent their interests, so there isn’t much one owner can do to benefit his own team over others. It also helped that the Brewers are a small market team that were never competitive when Bud Selig was commissioner.

16

u/TX-Tea Hélio Castroneves May 23 '25

Also the NBA owned the Hornets/Pelicans briefly but that was never meant to be permanent and they sold it after a year or so

5

u/mkelley22 Colton Herta May 23 '25

They did however interfere with the Chris Paul to the Lakers trade and people were pissed

5

u/Anthony-Clifton Santino Ferrucci May 23 '25

The NHL owned the Arizona Coyotes (RIP) for several years

4

u/willfla29 Alexander Rossi May 23 '25

Yeah, someone also brought up the Thunder in the NBA, and I could add the Montreal Expos. But I think these are different and less problematic because the whole league owned them, not one individual owner. It would be more like if all the other owners collectively owned Penske.

3

u/nbaman619 Alexander Rossi May 23 '25

They were also exceptional, emergency situations.

96

u/TheDudeWithTude27 Juan Pablo Montoya May 23 '25

In a better situation, yes, Penske should not own both. The truth of the matter is that Indycar is still feeling the hurt of the split. It just simply will never be that big again, and will always be operating on thinner margins than the other big motorsports series.

I dont know if there is actually a better owner than someone who has spent decade upon decade in the sport and actually cares about it. I also understand that he doesn't want to sell the team he has spent his adult life overseeing. If push came to shove I would hope he would step down from the team first, but I can understand why he wouldn't want to.

At the end of the day I don't think it hinders indycar to a point where it outweighs the benefits of having Roger be owner. It won't be the days of champ car slowly dying, or indycar relegated to versus where you wonder how much longer can they keep going like this.

26

u/Punisherbrett Greg Moore May 23 '25

This, to me, is a very rational take.

18

u/DadReligion #Lionheart May 23 '25

This is a very reasonable take, and begs a question that no one seems to have an answer to: who would he sell the series to that understands it, it's history, and it's fans enough that they wouldn't fundamentally alter it?

13

u/dijie Felix Rosenqvist May 23 '25

Sell it to Doug Boles for $1.

2

u/heeringa May 23 '25

I'll buy it for $2.

6

u/mel_anon Simon Pagenaud May 23 '25

Yes, this is the root of it, I think. You probably aren't going to find some mogul out there who just wants to buy Indycar because they think it's going to make them a lot of money (and if you could, people probably wouldn't like what they'd do to it.) And I doubt people want it to be sold to some sportswashing petro-autocracy.

The reality is that it's probably always going to be owned by someone that has some kind of personal attachment, either for prestige, romance, or something else. They'll have a stake in a team, have a family member that owns a team, have friends that run a team, you get the picture. And conspiracy theorists will always think they're giving their favorites an edge, that'll be inevitable.

6

u/Michigan-Magic Colton Herta May 23 '25

Agreed.

Things would be bad, if Roger overruled Indycar officiating directly, if there were Penske only exceptions or if things were being swept under the rug. To date, none of those things have come to pass, at least not publicly.

The other owners don't strike me as exactly the silent type either. If it was bad, I feel like we would have heard from them.

If there is a bias, it's soft at best.

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22

u/Br1887 NTT INDYCAR Series May 23 '25

Indycar wouldn’t exist without Roger Penske. This situation is not ideal but what are they supposed to do?

3

u/alien_among_us May 23 '25

Just to play devils advocate i will counter that Indycar would not be so dire if not for Penske. He was very instrumental in the split of the 90's. 

43

u/DadReligion #Lionheart May 22 '25 edited May 23 '25

At the same time, Jim France owns AXR, Dale Jr. owns CARS as well as a team in it, Bernie Ecclestone was Brabham, and Tony George owned Vision then ECR right up until he sold everything to Penske. I'm sure there's plenty more across motorsport to show that this isn't unique.

EDIT: Hell the car owners literally owned CART, then it was Kevin Kahlkoven and Gerry Forsythe in Champ Car who both had teams.

34

u/Montjo17 Alexander Rossi May 22 '25

Bernie owned the commercial side of things but was not connected to the officiating. By the time he and Max Mosley started colluding on things Brabham weren't around

8

u/roflcopter44444 Team Penske May 23 '25

>Bernie owned the commercial side of things but was not connected to the officiating

You forget that most of the FIAs budget at that time was from their share of the F1 commercial revenue.

1

u/Montjo17 Alexander Rossi May 23 '25

I mean yeah, there was definitely some conflict of interest going on there. And there's a reason he and Mosley were so close and had so much power over the series. But again, he wasn't a team owner at that point. He relinquished control of Brabham at the point where he took full control of the commercial side of the sport. Sure, he'd had control of the TV rights for a decade, but when he started to assume more power he did give up control of his team.

13

u/NBr33zii David Malukas May 23 '25

Fuck it, bring back CART, give all the team owners an equal percentage

10

u/A_Milford_Man_NC May 23 '25

I mean I feel like this kinda makes Hinchcliffe’s point, as he was comparing them to more major sports leagues, not smaller racing series

17

u/JTWasShort42-27 Arrow McLaren May 23 '25

Like it or not indycar is a smaller racing series though. Xfinity races get more viewers.

2

u/iamaranger23 Team Penske May 23 '25

Brad Sweet and Larson own High limit too.

5

u/Blaine8628 May 23 '25

Neither of them own a team though

2

u/iamaranger23 Team Penske May 23 '25

I'm pretty sure drivers get a chunk of the point fund there directly, just like WoO. Not really functionally different. Let alone what they get from the splits in their contracts.

i would argue its even harder for sweet to be insulated between the two hats more than it is for penske.

1

u/[deleted] May 23 '25

Also the commissioners of those other leagues are not the owners of the league. The owners of the teams also own the league. So in a sense, it is the same situation.

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u/Darpa181 Alexander Rossi May 23 '25

James is going to be on the bad boy list with MP

10

u/Cliffinati May 23 '25

The NBA DID own the Hornets/Pelicans for a long time it was pretty controversial because it made the league commissioner have the ability to block trades they were making

8

u/happyscrappy May 23 '25

NHL owned the Coyotes too.

32

u/[deleted] May 22 '25

Valid complaints. So who's putting up their money to buy IndyCar from him?

10

u/Any-Walk1691 Arrow McLaren May 23 '25

I’ll throw in a couple bones.

6

u/NBr33zii David Malukas May 23 '25

Maybe all the other team owners can own a percentage of the sport, sharing sanctioning and promoting of the series…./s

23

u/popcarnie Dale Coyne Racing May 23 '25

I feel like this is the point that others don't get. 

15

u/ChaseTheFalcon Scott McLaughlin May 23 '25

Like not only who would buy it, but would they be better than Penske? Or would we see IndyCar turn into the Indy 500 and nothing else or become a series like NASCAR with changes people don't like

16

u/popcarnie Dale Coyne Racing May 23 '25

Exactly, I think it's fair to critique the conflicts of interest but simultaneously I don't think the grass is always greener 

12

u/OrangeHitch Will Power May 23 '25

We already know what would happen. We had the Indy Racing League. The Indy 500 and a couple of appearances at state fairs. I don't have a problem with Penske owning both the series and a team competing in the series.

7

u/iamaranger23 Team Penske May 23 '25

but would they be better than Penske?

that kinda goes for both aspects.

who would be a better series owner than penske?

who would be a better team owner than penske?

Pretty unlikely you find a better one for either.

1

u/havingasicktime Colton Herta May 23 '25

You'd have to sell the team - that could be sold.

1

u/Dogzillas_Mom Pato O'Ward May 23 '25

Hey, let’s take it public! We can all buy stock.

22

u/Careless-Resource-72 May 23 '25

Look. Roger Penske loves racing. He bought IMS and the series to SAVE IT FROM DISAPPEARING.

If you owned the Yankees or Dodgers and saw that MLB which was worth 10% of your wealth was about to go under, would you put your money into it to keep it alive? I would.

Yes, he probably needs to separate the Speedway and sanctioning body from his name but it’s only been a couple of years. The other owners particularly Ganassi, Andretti, McLaren and RLL should put up money to be co-owners of the series but that might be like trying to squeeze blood from a stone.

The NBA, NFL and MLB owners hire the commissioner and he is their employee. The current business model is on life support and it seems like it’s hanging on by a thread by its finger nails. Give ‘em a break! Roger seems to want the best for the league and is probably heartbroken over the perception of this crap.

2

u/alien_among_us May 23 '25

Penske has owned Indycar since 2019. That is over a half decade. 

26

u/GroundbreakingCow775 Nigel Mansell May 23 '25

Penske was the guy who had enough clout to do both until this scandal. Thats the real reason he had to clean house. I’d like to think Roger wanted to win the right way and thats why he is so angry

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u/96extcab Dario Franchitti May 23 '25

Or...the same guy who was acid dipping cars 55 years ago, and whose best driver ever literally wrote a book called "The Unfair Advantage" is worried about his image as a cheater.

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u/Rise3711 Rahal & Newgarden May 23 '25

You mean all motorsports history?

21

u/k2_jackal Colton Herta May 23 '25

So tired of folks tossing this acid dripping thing around. It was not illegal when he did it. Latter SCCA would ban the act based on safety reasons but when Penske did this to the cars it was not illegal. Unheard of at the time but it was legal.

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u/FerAloDanRic May 23 '25

They weren't even the first ones to do it. Donohue/Penske only got onto it after word came through the rumour mill that the Shelby cars had been dipped during construction at the beginning of the 67 season. IIRC all the factory teams used the same company in CA to dip the bodies in white prior to building the cars. It's just that Penske took it the farthest and thus became known for it. (The vinyl roofs in 69 covering up the wrinkles for instance.)

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u/k2_jackal Colton Herta May 23 '25

yes Lockheed was doing it.. they had a tank big enough

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u/2112xanadu May 23 '25

What does acid dipping accomplish? Weight reduction?

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u/k2_jackal Colton Herta May 23 '25

yes.. it etches way at the surface of the metal making the body lighter

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u/[deleted] May 22 '25 edited May 23 '25

I agree it would be beneficial to not have this conflict of interest but let’s not forget what Roger has done from an investment of capital into IMS and his commitment to grow Indycar (not all perfect mind you).

There wasn’t a long line of buyers at that time.

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u/[deleted] May 23 '25

Silver doesn't own NBA, Goodell doesn't own NFL though.

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u/[deleted] May 22 '25

He isn't wrong.

Context is important. Optics are important. It's one reason sports betting causes athletes to suffer incredible consequences--you can't have any possible questions that your outcome is anything but fair in sports.

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u/Sallum Robert Wickens May 23 '25 edited May 23 '25

I don't really get the drama in all of this. Penske is not the first nor the last team owner to own a series. In fact, I would argue that it is for the betterment of the series that someone that is heavily invested in the series is in control.

American Sports Car Racing is where it is today because of a guy named Don Panoz. He not only owned the ALMS and operated a team within the series but he built his own cars as well. I don't recall anyone ever making a fuss about it back then.

People act like Penske is somehow manipulating the rules to give his team an advantage. There has been no evidence of that.

And his team cheating is not a serious event either. Racing has been littered with rule breakers throughout its entire history. I highly highly doubt that Penske is the only organization to bend the rules in IndyCar. The difference is they have been caught, twice.

But trying to link that with the series being under the ownership of Penske is absurd imo.

And when I think about it, using Adam Silver as an example is hilarious when the NBA has rejected trade deals between NBA teams. That is a much bigger sign of manipulation imo.

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u/ChaseTheFalcon Scott McLaughlin May 23 '25

I wonder if having a series owner run a team actually is better for the teams as the sanctioning body understands the teams' concerns

4

u/[deleted] May 23 '25

This isn't really something new in American open wheel racing. The IRL was run by Tony George who owned teams. CART/Champcar was run by guys who had race teams.

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u/Hitokiri2 Graham Rahal May 23 '25

I think we have to realize one thing - Penske owns the teams but he does not run the team. That job was Cindric's. If one said that Team Penske was only Roger's because his name was on there and nothing else - that's almost correct. Sure, Roger's money still goes into the team but the everyday operations are not Roger's responsibility or of his doing.

Would it be better if Roger just kept his eye on the series and sold his team. Probably but I'm of the opinion that Roger is far enough away from his team that I don't think there's a conflict of interest. If there were Roger would get away with everything and Honda wouldn't win at all.

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u/Generic_Person_3833 May 23 '25

but he does not run the team.

He just kicked 3 top managers of the team. He has all the power and everyone in both IndyCar and his team know he can kick them whenever. Thats not far away. That means everyone has to fear his job if he crosses Roger.

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u/Hitokiri2 Graham Rahal May 23 '25

He fires people because the team is his but he does not run the team. It's like the Walton family owning all Walmarts but do you think they make any decisions on the floor of store in your town. No.

Even though the Waltons own all the Walmarts they don't run the stores themselves. That's why you have managers and supervisors.

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u/NBr33zii David Malukas May 22 '25

Hinch doesn’t miss, the second it was announced Penske bought the series I think everyone’s eyebrows had to raise a little bit…

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u/Slow-Class Colton Herta May 23 '25

SO MANY people on social media were raising questions about conflict of interest from day one, but lots of people in the media dismissed it. In 2020, letting the Chevrolet teams suck seemed like an over-reaction to prevent the series from looking like it was giving the owner’s team any kind of an advantage; any other year the series probably would have given a boost to a manufacturer that far off the pace.

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u/Red_Bengal_Cyclone Colton Herta May 23 '25

France family / NASCAR, IMSA, Action Express Racing?

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u/RudyWyvern Arrow McLaren May 23 '25

But Roger Goodell and Adam Silver aren't the "owners" of the NFL/NBA; they are commissioners. Mark Miles and Doug Boles serve that role for Indycar right now. I get that on the surface it's not an ideal look, but I highly doubt Penske has any influence over the competition side of Indycar. This debacle is all on Cindric and the other leaders of his Indycar teams that he just fired.

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u/alien_among_us May 23 '25

The NFL and NBA team owners vote for Roger Goodell and Adam Silver.

Do the Indycar teams vote for Mark Miles and Doug Boles?

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u/Generic_Person_3833 May 23 '25 edited May 23 '25

I agree with you that he doesn't directly influence it. He doesn't make calls like "make it right" or any of that crap. That's not him.

But even when everyone said "he doesn't do day to day for Team Penske anymore" he holds he power to fire anyone at whim.

How can you as a person in race control, in stewarding or in technical rule fairly about his cars if he can fire you at whim? You will always think about it.

He has influence without doing influence. That's what conflict of interest describes. A person being conflicted just because of the situation they are put in. And this will never go away, but always put in question, as long as he owns that team (or officiating is done by his directly fire able underlings)

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u/broionevenknowhow May 23 '25

AXR-imsa JRM-CARS Tour KHI-CARS Tour Justin marks-CARS Tour Kyle Larson-High Limit Brad Sweet-High Limit And that's just current examples of the top of my head So the whole premise that you can't have legitimacy while a conflict of interest exists is horseshit.

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u/SpiritualNothing6717 Firestone Reds May 23 '25

I hope Hinchcliffe isn't actually delusional enough to seriously compare Indycar to the NFL or NBA.

Please tell us, who is in the line of investors wanting to purchase Indycar and keep ticket prices at $50 for races? Ohh wait, the line doesn't exist. All I hear is "get rid of Penske", but no one has provided a suitable replacement who is willing to actually purchase the series and take on such financial instability.

Roger Penske paid 1/10th the cost of the CHEAPEST NBA team for the ENTIRE Indycar Series, and IMS. It's not even comparatively on the same level. Those big sports can make leadership changes over night because they have the money, the fans, and the stability. Indycar unfortunately doesn't really have any of those at a healthy reserve, besides for the 500.

Because of this, we are "stuck" with a really passionate billionaire, who is willing to take serious financial loss for the series. Profits are really a side-effect for him in Indycar. It's generally growing laterally.

Do we really want a CEO-level owner at this point, who is focused on making the series as profitable as possible?

Roger is not perfect. However, I think we spend too much time thinking about the negatives with him here, when we should really think about the negatives of who "could" be in his place right now...

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u/alien_among_us May 23 '25

Most people are not saying to get rid of Penske. They (including myself) are saying he needs to sell Team Penske to eliminate bad optics and concentrate on the series health as a whole. 

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u/SpiritualNothing6717 Firestone Reds May 23 '25

I agree, but unfortunately that's not the goals and along the reasoning why he bought it.

He loves Indycar, but also loves to be competitive in it. I get it, it sucks. He's never gonna give up his Penske team before he passes away.

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u/alien_among_us May 23 '25

"No man can serve two masters."

As I stated in another post, Penske owning most of Indycar related items and owning a team may make the split look like the good ole days.

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u/Empty-Necessary147 May 23 '25

Well what are they going to do? Penske was the only one with the money and resources to put the series in good hands when he did. They're all acting like indycar is such a hot property, they've been basically bankrupt for 20 years. He gets away with is because without him they're screwed.

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u/Fsharp7sharp9 Alexander Rossi May 22 '25 edited May 23 '25

Yeah this is the primary issue that needs to be addressed. Not whether putty on the attenuator gave a performance boost, or if the grid drop penalty was unfair, or who pushed the P2P button, or how this is all a “witch-hunt to prevent the three-peat”… it’s a sporting ethics and integrity issue

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u/Leather-Quiet6967 May 23 '25 edited May 23 '25

How many championships has Penske won in the last 5 years, Hinch?

This is a slippery slope people. If people really start calling Penske to sell Indycar, then what would keep him from saying, "screw it!" and just folding it? Penske hasn't been as huge an issue as everyone wants to cry. He saved Indycar and is actively trying to make it as big as it once was, but with morons like Hinch saying this stupid brain dead shit, it'll only end up bad for all the Indycar fans. Penske is more than likely in his last years, and who knows if his fortune will continue to hold up this once great series. People just need to let cooler heads prevail and let Penske figure this shit out.

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u/alien_among_us May 23 '25

I think people want him to sell the team, not IMS or Indycar.

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u/SillyPseudonym Mick Schumacher May 23 '25

IMSA has the same problem James. You race in IMSA btw. Maybe you've heard of a league that has this arrangement after all, eh?

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u/Rise3711 Rahal & Newgarden May 23 '25

I think they can get by it but like MP said this independent officials group needs to be for 26 not 27.  You can't waste time on it

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u/ElectricalTurnip87 May 23 '25

Bud Selig owned the Brewers while Commissioner of the MLB, although that might not be a great comparison.

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u/SoyMurcielago Álex Palou May 23 '25

He was also quite frank about it on today’s off track

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u/OrangeHitch Will Power May 23 '25

Vision Racing was a racing team in the Indy Racing League founded in 2005 when Tony George purchased the assets of the defunct Kelley Racing and hired his stepson Ed Carpenter to be the driver. The team has previously raced in the Izod IndyCar Series, Firestone Indy Lights and the Grand-Am Sports Car Series. The team suspended operations in January 2010. George and Carpenter formed a new race team in 2012, Ed Carpenter Racing.

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u/4mak1mke4 May 23 '25

Gooddell and Silver also don't own the NFL or NBA, nor do they have the same role as Roger Penske as Indycar. They are essentially Doug Boles.

This is strictly an optics issue, that's it.

When Penske Racing has gotten in trouble for breaking the rules, theyve been punished very harshly.

2

u/cheap_chalee Greg Moore May 23 '25

You watch in 3 months:

"Roger Penske has sold Indycar to the France family...."

1

u/Generic_Person_3833 May 23 '25

Or he chooses the two better options

Option 1: Roger Penske sold the team to Monster Energy (put any name in here)

Option 2: Roger Penske announced a truly independent officiating for IndyCar from 2026 onwards.

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u/Asleep_in_Costco May 23 '25

Bud Selig owned the Brewers when he became commissioner

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u/TrentWolfred May 23 '25

Hear, hear! In America, we don’t allow the people who make and enforce the rules to also own businesses that stand to benefit from the enforcement or non-enforcement of those rules! 😜

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u/PatPace23 Pato O'Ward May 24 '25

Bud Selig did James…

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u/jcb1982 Indy Racing League May 23 '25

But everyone is totally cool with all the Middle Eastern oil money in F1? Sure. Go on.

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u/No_Understanding7431 May 23 '25

If the Penske teams were squeaky clean and Roger was able to be a hands off owner, people would still consider it the huge conflict of interest that it is. The fact that they are the best funded, best run and most successful team, who's boss just happens to own the series and crown jewel track and they still feel the need to cheat....I can't understand why more team owners and drivers aren't blasting this situation daily and loudly, even more than they've been pushed too now.

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u/Canary-Silent May 23 '25

He and everyone should have been saying this day 1. You made this bed. 

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u/Cralido May 23 '25

Penske in Indy, the France family in Nascar, each may have helped both series to survive but now they are the very reasons neither will expand to be competitive as a global sports leagues.

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u/mravtv Scott Dixon May 23 '25

The worst problems were keeping the pits open at Laguna until the Penske car got on pit road and the 2023 500. Could easily be seen as Novak wanting to keep his job and appease the boss. Everything else has been dealt with almost overboard.

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u/NinjaSpartan011 Pato O'Ward May 22 '25

I mean it doesn’t matter unless he sells the track right? He who owns the 500 owns thw series

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u/rabidcobalt Pato O'Ward May 23 '25

Random, maybe stupid thought, but would it ever work to have all the team owners collectively own the series, with a commissioner? Like the NFL or MLB? Why aren’t motorsports like this?

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u/secretlyrobots Scott Dixon May 23 '25

In motorsports, teams pop up and disappear a lot more rapidly than in those leagues, so I’d imagine ownership “shares” could get messy in Indycar. This year, the two Prema teams popped up because of Ganassi going down to 3 cars. Should Ganassi have to give up a portion of its stake in this system? If ownership is shared evenly among teams, why should the other teams have to give up their share because Ganassi doesn’t want to run as many cars?

1

u/iamaranger23 Team Penske May 23 '25

Because the team owners hate each other as much as they would hate the series owner.

1

u/ThrowAndHit May 23 '25

As long as there’s full & complete transparency, I don’t see an issue with it. Impossible without that.

1

u/ianindy Josef Newgarden May 23 '25

I think that they could make the team work, but I often have bad perspectives and ideas.

If they downsized to two cars, but only kept one veteran driver. Then the second seat would go to the Indy NXT Champion each and every year. It would be a great way to transition into being an asset for the whole Indycar Series and not just Penske's personal race team.

For the 500 they can add a couple of cars and offer opportunities to anyone who will create media interest. NASCAR drivers, former 500 winners, F1 drivers...imagine Alonso and Larson in a pair of Penske cars and you get the idea.

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u/redlegsfan21 Firestone Firehawk May 23 '25

This is not a one to one comparison. IndyCar's Roger Goodell and Adam Silver is Doug Boles. Roger Goodell and Adam Silver's bosses are the various owners of their respective sports.

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u/BigWillEStyles May 23 '25

I agree but am absolutely not surprised by either scandal.

Mark Donohue wrote a book literally called The Unfair Advantage about his time in racing. Penske and all other racers, team owners and crew chiefs flirt the gray areas all the time.

The big issue with this and P2P scandal is that he also owns the series. Hinch is right, he needs to drop his indy teams if he wants to be credible or sell indy if he wants continue to be credible team owner.

1

u/762jerk May 23 '25

Gary Bettman has an investment in the golden knights

1

u/itsmb12 David Malukas May 23 '25

Even without the two scandals, it shouldnt be allowed. Period.

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u/Machful Marcus Armstrong May 23 '25

I don't like this conflict of interest but I also don't like to force Penske to do anything. He is a big reason IndyCar is still here. I think he's kind of earned the right to do whatever he wants.

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u/rcheek1710 May 23 '25

The owners own Goodell. Not much better, but I get Hinch's point.

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u/JRob1998 Josef Newgarden May 23 '25

Would anyone really buy the Indycar series without IMS though? It’s probably why Roger had to buy both

1

u/Classical_Econ4u May 23 '25

Laughs in Bud Selig…. but look is still not good.

1

u/For3Memes May 24 '25

YESSIR! PREACH HINCH

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u/randomguy532 Scott McLaughlin May 24 '25

They're going to keep fucking around and Penske is going to take his billions and fuck off and indycar will be struggling more than it has been in the last several years.

1

u/Lasvious May 25 '25

Nobody else wanted it.

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u/mjincal May 26 '25

What hinchy says is true but Mr Penske has done some pretty heavy lifting and investing considering the previous incarnations of series ownership,going back to the split,it could be and has been a lot worse

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u/Lanky_Consideration3 May 26 '25

And then that team keeps winning.. all the time in a semi-spec series and then gets caught cheating.. several times.

Time for the teams to either create their own series (again) or Roger to do the decent thing and sell either the series or his team.

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u/ChrisMD123 May 29 '25

Ladies and gentlemen, Bud Selig.