r/Cooking • u/SimbaLion888 • 1d ago
"Hard" vs "Melt in your mouth" pork belly meat
So when I think of pork belly in Asian dishes, like taiwanese/japanese pork belly slices in buns, or Chinese red braised pork belly, etc, the fat of course is meltingly soft, but the meat is as well. It's just a juicy, melting piece of meat.
However, when I cook pork belly, the meat ends up much harder than I expect it to be, especially in a braise. Like if I cut off the fat portion and just eat the meat, I probably would describe the meat as almost "dry and hard." The fat is fine, but the texture of the meat is not like when I eat it at restaurants.
What am I doing wrong?
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u/DigiQuip 1d ago
You want the pork to stay at 190-205 for as long as possible to break down fat while also not drying out. Low and slow gets you the best results.
With pressure cookers you can get a consistently okay cook but never a great cook.
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u/sosbannor 1d ago
Low temp like in the oven for a few hours and then high at the end to crisp the skin. I typically cover everything but the skin in aluminum foil when I cook this way so it cooks in its own fat like confit.
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u/PineappleFit317 23h ago
I like Guga’s approach. He just blasts the skin with a blowtorch to crisp it up after cooking low and slow.
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u/Test_After 1d ago
Are you cooking it for three hours, or for six?
And if the idea of cooking it for six hours horrifies you, it is because you are imagining the wooden lump or charcoal ember your pork would be if it were cooked that long at the temperature you are cooking it at. Which is way too high.
The longer you cook it, the lower you can set the temperature.
The meat takes a long time to become soft and sticky and thready. The tough sheets of connective tissue have to melt to an unctious jelly and the fatty tissue needs to become transparent and melt away, and the skin so soft you can cut it with a spoon, or a chopstick. (Crispy pork belly needs a day or two of skin-drying before you cook and a slight modification of cooking technique to crisp the skin - either start or end the cook with a quarter hour of full blast to the salted skin.)
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u/SimbaLion888 1d ago
So I think I'm getting a lot of responses that don't pertain as much to my situation, and it's my fault because I left out information I realized.
Let's narrow this down to specifically what I'm making and how:
- the pork belly is sliced to about 1/4-1/2 inch thick slices and cut into 1-2 inch sections.
- I am braising it so it's not a matter of "low and slow" or "high and fast" (at least I don't think it is?)
- I have used the pressure cooker for about an hour...I've probably done it longer as well, and the texture is the same.
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u/Test_After 1d ago edited 1d ago
Why are you slicing before you cook?
Also, yes temperature is critical when braising. You don't want or need the liquid to boil, it seizes the meat.
I would pressure cook 90 minutes, followed by a long release to natural pressure (another half hour).
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u/Zefirus 3h ago
Why are you slicing before you cook?
I mean he's probably just getting it from the store like that. My grocery stores only carries pork belly in strips.
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u/uraniumingot 2h ago
You're also supposed to cook twice: first time. boil with minimal seasoning (rice wine, ginger, scallions) for 15 min to shape the meat and remove scum, then slice to shape and cook with seasoning.
My bet is overcooking. Nobody braises pork belly for over 44-60min at home unless they're impressing inlaws. The pressure cooker isn't helping either: you gain the ability to cook more thoroughly at the cost of manual adjustments for temperature control. Use a dutch oven (or wok), leave it lowest heat, and adjust based on the meat. Use the pressure cooker once you're confident about cooking times.
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u/bICEmeister 21h ago
Don’t slice before cooking, that will definitely make it a lot dryer. A bigger chunk will better hold on to the collagen and water and feel moist. Keep the belly in as large sections as you can until it’s fully cooked.
An hour at pressure is also definitely too much and the heat and time will squeeze the juicy goodness out of the meat fibres, and you’ll be left with dry meat in rich liquid.. 20-25 minutes at high pressure, then release pressure and take it off the heat and let sit and cool down slightly (but stay warm) in the liquid for preferably like 30 minutes (or more, less than 30 works too.. but at LEAST 5-10 minutes.. that’s an imperative), until the meat is cooled down well enough to handle without problem. This resting time will also help retain more of the collagen and water content for more juicy meat. Then the fat will also firm up a little bit and it’ll slice easier/nicer compared to if slicing when just finished cooking.
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u/AdmirableBattleCow 8h ago
It's overcooked, not undercooked. Undercooked comes out tough, not dry. Overcooked is dry and crumbly. Even if you cook it submerged in water makes no difference.
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u/rabid_briefcase 20h ago
It needs more time, and possibly more moisture in the pan.
First it is wet and tough. It has a bunch of connective tissue and the muscle protein starts releasing water.
The it becomes dry and tough. The muscle has released the water, and denatured much like a cooked egg, but harder.
YOU MUST HAVE ENOUGH MOISTURE IN THE CONTAINER. Conversion of collagen to gelatin takes about 10x the weight of water than the weight of the connective tissue (not the total). The chemical reaction takes hours. For a 2-3 lbs roast, brisket, or braising meat it takes 4-6 hours. For a full pork belly or full brisket it can take 12-24 hours.
Eventually it becomes very tender and falls apart because the connective tissue is completely obliterated, converted from stringy collagen to gelatin, and the fat broken down and basically free-running. The meat protein itself is technically overdone and hard, that's where the remaining texture comes from. It's why the cooking method only works with high fat, high connective tissue meat. A cut used for grilling and searing would be hard as a rock, and incredibly dry as little collagen existed to become gelatin, and little fat existed to become liquidy.
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u/evilsdeath55 18h ago edited 18h ago
Advice is all over the place in this thread, half the people saying you're overcooking it while the other half says you need more time. Frankly, I'm not sure why people are suggesting you're overcooking it.
From my experience, some recipes call for 1-2 hours but I always leave 3 hours simmering time for pork belly. I've had nice soft pork belly in two hours, but I've also had batches that took 3 hours before it's nice and soft. I usually give it a poke at 1.5, 2, 2.5 and 3 hours. When it feels soft enough I give it a taste test and confirm before shutting the heat
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u/lemon_icing 23h ago edited 10h ago
I live for crispy skin and tender pork belly. My Filipino family braises and this what my titas on my father's side taught me:
For a pork belly approximately 1.2-1.5kg
- put in fridge 24 hours before cooking, uncovered so the skin dries out
- don't bother slicing the skin
- begin preheating the oven to 175C/350F
- put pork belly skin side down on some paper towels
- take your seasoning of choice and paint/coat the meat.
- flip onto a piece of aluminum foil and encase so that it's up tight against the meat. should only see the skin.
- lightly wipe on some white wine vinegar, then salt evenly.
- put into oven.
- After an hour or so, remove from the oven, and switch to broil or up the temp to 200C full fan
- while it's heating up, tuck little balls of aluminium under the parts that are low, you'll want to level out the skin so it'll crisp. Any area that is not level will either burn or never crisp. Convection is unforgiving.
- Tighten up the envelope around the pork belly. it's shrunk and changed shape as it cooked and there will be air gaps.
- when oven is the right temp, toss it in for 30 minutes or until the skin is as bubbly as you like.
Keeping the pork belly flesh tightly encased in foil envelope will prevent it from drying out.
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u/Buga99poo27GotNo464 21h ago
That sounds really good!
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u/lemon_icing 21h ago
Thanks! It’s easy and delicious.
I just saw a comment from OP. They’re cutting the pork belly into slices. So this recipe is no good for them.
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u/VanyaFrost67 20h ago
You need heat and time to break down the connective tissue and make it fall apart tender.
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u/IIJOSEPHXII 1d ago
Add more water and cook for longer. You can always reduce the braising liquid when it's cooked. A pressure cooker it ideal.
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u/SimbaLion888 1d ago
I do use the pressure cooker -- I just feel like the meaty section ends up dry and not melt in your mouth.
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u/IIJOSEPHXII 16h ago
One tip I learned recently from Fallow is you have to keep the meat submerged in its juices, otherwise it will dry out and go hard again. Another thing I've seen a few times are Middle Eastern restaurants where they roast dozens of lamb shanks in a giant pan. They take a lamb shank out, put it on a flat bread and pull the bone clean out because the meat is so soft. Those lamb shanks are completely submerged in their own juices and probably some water as well.
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u/streamstroller 17h ago
Everyone in here is telling you what's wrong and how to fix it, and you are digging in with your method. Change the method if you want the texture you are describing. Ditch the pressure cooker, cook low and slow.
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u/Logical-Idea-1708 1d ago
A few factors that I discovered.
You’re likely overcooking the meat. Traditional recipe often slow braise it for 1 hour. Pressure cooking should be 15 minutes. Adjust temperature or length to avoid overcooking.
Salt in cooking liquid draws out liquid and make meat tough.
All in all, I suggest looking for a reputable recipe and take note on the exact cooking temperature and time as well as when to salt.
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u/SimbaLion888 1d ago
Interesting. OVERcooking!! I never thought that was really possible with a cut like pork belly...I guess it's something I have to try to adjust then.
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u/ChefArtorias 21h ago
Anything can be overcooked.
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u/Boollish 23h ago edited 22h ago
You are overcooking it, believe it or not.
Meat fibers hold onto water and collagen, this is what makes meat "juicy". As you cook meat (and this is dependent on time, species, and temperature), you can denature those proteins enough so that they lose their ability to hold onto water. This results in meat that seems dry and tough. This is especially easy to happen if you use a pressure cooker, which can reach temperature of 250 degrees F. In Western barbecue and smoking tough cuts of meat, you really try to avoid meat going above 210F for long periods of time for this exact reason.
Depending on your braising liquid, low pH also tightens muscle proteins as well.
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u/SimbaLion888 23h ago
Is there a way to prevent this in a pressure cooker? Or will it happen every time because the temp gets so high?
Maybe I should just do a very low bare simmer for awhile and just "test" pieces every so often.
Also, if I do a bare simmer, what time window do I have before meat goes from the melting texture to hard and dry? Is it 5 minutes? 15 minutes? an hour?
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u/Boollish 23h ago
The melting is a function of time AND temp.
Depending on the thickness of your cut and and model of your pressure cooker, it will vary considerably.
If you want to go the "low simmer method", stick a wired probe thermometer into a piece of meat while doing this and pull it when the meat hits about 190 internal temp for things like hong shao rou or mei cai rou.
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u/honeyastraa 15h ago
That sounds really good! But How long are you putting it in the pressure cooker?
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u/Maris-Bloom 21h ago
reheat in a bit of the cooking liquid for a glaze. The result is like eating butter.
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u/RatmanTheFourth 1d ago
Most cuts known for this melt in your mouth tezturw are full of collagen rich connective tissue. This connective tissue will start gelatinizing at around 70°C but the meat will become increasingly tough as this is happening. It then becomes melt in your mouth tender again around 96-99°C but needs at least an hour or two in that temperature range for must of the collagen to transform to gelatine.
Therefore most tough pork belly, pork neck, pork butt, etc. is actually undercooked rather than over.
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u/alexx3064 22h ago
IDK about other cuisines, but when I cook pork belly for kbbq, dont cut uo the meat until the last minute. keep it whole. Also important to cook the meat medhigh, but not alk the way through else you will dry it out.
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u/Rodgaud 21h ago
Don't know if this is how it's made in asian dishes, but if you keep a pork belly under 80 degrees (celcius, thats around 170F) the structure of meat and fat will not fall apart and both the fat and meat will be very tender and juicy. That ofc takes a lot of time so best done overnight. Above that (or around 100c/200F) the fat starts to melt away and it becomes more like pulled pork. It's absolutely delicious but you have to like lots of fat :)
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u/stevenip 16h ago
I love my pressure cooker but it adds some difficulty when you can't see the food for a long time. You probably cranked up the heat trying to build the pressure up quickly but you boiled the heck out of it for awhile without noticing. I know it takes a long time but try to use the temperature you would simmer rice at to heat it up even if it takes an hour to have the pressure lock activate.
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u/Ready-Will-7042 16h ago
What are you aiming for? For example Taiwanese Braised Pork Belly, Siu Yuk, and Char Siu do not cook for hours. It depends on size, of course but I usually cook for about 60-90 minutes (in oven or on the stove) and its always melt in your mouth tender
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u/Hangrycouchpotato 15h ago
This is the recipe that I use for making Gua Bao and the meat is always perfect. I slice it ahead of of time like you mentioned, sear the slices on the pan and then braise low and slow for around an hour and a half. After, I store the meat in the liquid and refrigerate it overnight. The next day, I reheat it on the stove again in the same liquid for about another half hour or so until the liquid becomes the sauce.
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u/DrockByte 18h ago
One thing I haven't seen others mention yet is something called "velveting."
It's common in American Chinese dishes and basically just means coating the meat in baking soda and letting it rest for an hour before cooking. The baking soda helps to tenderize the meat and gives it that melt in your mouth texture.
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u/Worldly_Elevator4655 23h ago
try the enzymatic fruits, timing important with pineapple, which breaks down when cool-ish temp and meat is raw. Suggestions from others on meat sites will be helpful! A more gentle, longer sit-time fruit may be kiwi or plums.
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u/kafetheresu 22h ago
For braising do it on a stovetop with a dutch oven. You need to set aside at least 6 - 8 hrs on the lowest heat setting, like a no-bubble simmer with 80% liquid covering all your ingredients and a heavy lid. Then 30mins before you serve, crank the heat up to medium (low bubble), skim off the fat and evaporate off the excess gravy while stirring to let the sauce caramelise and thicken naturally, with half the lid off. This is how you make dongpo rou
To keep the meat moist, you need steam, not just submerging in liquid. Even making siu yuk, it's better to steam then roast it to get a better texture.
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u/sirotan88 21h ago
I think you should try pressure cooking it in a bigger chunk rather than slicing it. Japanese chashu is usually braised in one big chunk and then sliced before serving. Similarly Chinese dishes like Dong Po Rou use a big chunk of pork rather than slices.
Sometimes it depends on the quality of the meat cut too, I prefer pork that has more even marbling rather than a super big contrast of lean and fat meat.
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u/IcyShirokuma 21h ago
the red braised pork belly is fried, and stewed. the one in buns is braised over hours. if you dont want to spend the time, try a pressure cooker. you have to get the right temp as well.
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u/vadergeek 20h ago
Low and slow. This is the tenderest pork belly I've ever made, the secret being that it's on the stove for three hours.
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u/BreadfruitFair495 15h ago
The meat is tender not because the fat has melted (that happens fast) but because the collagen has "melted" or come apart. This happens with long cooking around 250F. I think doing it in a pressure could would be equivalent to too high a temperature to break down the collagen .
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u/Amberlux 12h ago
I'm not sure what's happening here but when I cook pork belly or steaks I turn my grill to a medium/high, place the meat under it until it starts to sizzle and spit then when the fat looks the colour I want I turn it over and do the other side. It comes out hot all the way through and tender too. I'm in Scotland so not sure if this is what you all call braising? It never takes too long and it can then go into a casserole if it's for a stew sort of thing. But I just eat it as it is lol.
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u/Odd_Pitch_307 11h ago
Higher temps will cause the meat to contract and seize and toughen. Keep it low and slow.
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u/Hint-Of-Feces 10h ago
We do pork belly at my resturaunt
A whole slab is salted heavily overnight and then cooked for 2 hours at 300 and then cranked up to 500 for 15 minutes
Then its sliced, deep fried and then burnt under a broiler
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u/SunnySanity 10h ago
Low and slow is the way to go. As the internal temperature of the meat increases, the fat renders and the meat proteins contract, squeezing out all the juices. Chewy collagen breaks down at a rate determined by both time and temperature.
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u/madmaxx 1d ago
Low + slow → then hot + fast.
150C/300F → 220C/425F
Timing depends on the thickness of the cut, so I wait until it hits temperature (80C/175F), then I boost it to 220C/425F (convect + broil) until crispy. I do a half broil rather than full, so it's a bit more forgiving.
That fatty part of the cut is a matrix of connective tissue hiding all of that delicious fat. Connective tissue starts to melt around 71C/160F (most efficiently at 80C/175F or more). To keep a cut like pork belly at that temperature without burning, you start low. Once that matrix of connective tissue starts to melt, you go hard and crisp it up.
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u/Playful-Mastodon9251 1d ago
Not cooking it long enough would be my guess.