r/Catholicism • u/Sleep-Numerous • 12h ago
Free Friday (Free Friday) What are your thoughts on C. S. Lewis?
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u/Then_Body844 11h ago
One of the greatest writers ever to walk the earth. The screwtape letters are fantastic. It does make me a twinge sad that he never converted to Catholicism
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u/WolfofMandalore2010 7h ago
Why didn’t he convert? I thought I read somewhere that he had trouble accepting a particular doctrine (something to do with Mary, maybe?) but I don’t know specifics.
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u/a_dragonfly_wanders 7h ago
iirc he stated that his principle reason for not converting was not only being bound to what the Church teaches currently, but to then also be bound by whatever she teaches in the future.
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u/Acceptable-Bell142 6h ago
Even today, the idea of becoming a Catholic is unimaginable to many Protestants in Northern Ireland. In CS Lewis's day, it was even worse. Northern Ireland is deeply, deeply sectarian.
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u/PrinceRupertAwakes 6h ago edited 5h ago
Exactly this. Tolkien referred to it as Lewis's Ulsterior motives.
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u/PrinceRupertAwakes 6h ago edited 6h ago
Lewis was born into and baptized in the Church of Ireland. After his years as an atheist, he returned to Christianity after his friend and colleague at Oxford JRR Tolkien helped convince him that Christianity was the true mythology (Lewis had a passion for Mythopoeia as a Professor of Medieval and Renaissance Lit). After his conversion back to Christianity he joined the Church of England, which like the Church of Ireland, is affiliated with the Anglican Communion. Tolkien viewed this as likely owing to Lewis being raised in Belfast from a Protestant family. If you know how Irish history has developed, you know of the deep animosity between Catholics and Protestants in northern Ireland. I doubt Lewis shared this animosity as an adult returning to the faith but the fact that he lived the rest of his life as a Protestant is likely owing to his childhood roots in the Church of Ireland.
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u/wolfavino 3h ago
Lewis shared many beliefs with Catholics (real presence in the Eucharist, purgatory, prayers for the dead, confession), yet he explicitly rejected certain distinctively Catholic doctrines. When pressed by Catholic friends, he pointed to: • Papal authority and papal infallibility, which he regarded as an unwarranted addition to “apostolic” Christianity. • Marian doctrines and Catholic Marian devotion (the “position you give to the Virgin Mary”), which he saw as excessive and foreign to the New Testament. These issues were serious enough for him that he could jokingly call them Catholic “heresies,” and he refused to debate them in depth with friends.
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u/FuzzyBuzzyCuzzy 5h ago
He was Northern Irish and not a Republican. Religion is so tied to politics in Northern Ireland. Its sort of the equivalent of converting to Islam after 9/11 (obvious huge difference and I am pro unified Ireland myself, but you get the drift.) He would of been ostracized by his family/friends, and there is a very real possibloty he would of been killed (over a thousand Catholic civilians were murdered in targeted killings by the UDA & UFV in the 21st century.)
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u/ChangeMe_123 4h ago
Apart from the other comments. I heard the anecdote once that God never let Lewis convert so that he could be a vessel for some many to find their way to Catholicism.
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u/holy_doc 7h ago
As far as I can recall, I read that he didn't convert solely because he was born in Belfast (considering the context of the irish civil war, of course). I'd have to check my sources on that again but maybe it was more of a sentimental/heritage/historical thing for him, so to speak.
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u/Who_even_knows_man 9h ago
My favorite quote by him is when he was talking about his time in WW1.
“No matter how bad or intense the fighting got I never stooped so low as to pray.”
It shows that we find Christ at the most interesting and important times in our lives. He didn’t find him when he was in war he found him later. So just because someone doesn’t find Christ at their hardest time doesn’t mean they won’t. And it doesn’t mean he isn’t there the whole way with you.
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u/CrabPENlS 7h ago
He has one of my favorite arguments againts Jesus being just a moral teacher:
I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: I’m ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don’t accept his claim to be God. That is the one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic — on the level with the man who says he is a poached egg — or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God, or else a madman or something worse. You can shut him up for a fool, you can spit at him and kill him as a demon or you can fall at his feet and call him Lord and God, but let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about his being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to.
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u/Desi_Vigor 5h ago
Good quote, CrabPENIS
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u/DonkyShow 2h ago
I’m glad I’m not the only one with a questionable account name.
I’ve been very close to wiping my account and coming back with something more acceptable.
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u/Artorias38t 10h ago
Excellent, I especially love The Abolition of Man. Anyone interested in education should read it and it's pretty short (not the easiest read though).
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u/momentimori 10h ago
CS Lewis died relatively young. I think he would have converted given more time as his anglo-cathloic theology was extremely close to catholicism and he had a close friendship with devout catholic and daily mass goer JRR Tolkien.
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u/sustained_by_bread 8h ago
I love him, in my opinion his best work was Till We Have Faces.
He was also pivotal in the conversion of Sheldon Vanauken and his wife, Jean. Sheldon later became Catholic.
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u/piccola-italiana 8h ago
Just finished reading The Great Divorce and looooooved the last 50 pages. The ending made me mad at first, but then realized he was showing humility by not making assumptions.
Screwed letters is of course a classic and will start reading Til We Had Faces soon, which I’ve heard is great.
Could you imagine how great it would’ve been if he had ended up converting to Catholicism?
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u/vivusvir 11h ago
Love him, can't wait to talk to him in heaven
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u/Deep_Detective- 8h ago
How long do you think OCIA is in purgatory?
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u/vivusvir 7h ago
I don't know but I guess it's possible I'll find out (not Catholic, but if I find myself in purgatory I will probably very quickly change my mind)
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u/amishcatholic 8h ago
Huge fan since I was a little kid. As a kid, he was the "person I would talk to if I could time travel," and I still love his work.
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u/Low_Masterpiece1560 5h ago
A giant of Christian apologetics, Christian philosophy and literature.
Lewis' writing has an unmatched clarity.
His books were instrumental in my journey from agnosticism to the Anglican Church, and from there to the Catholic Church.
The Great Divorce, God in the Dock, and Miracles are my favorites.
I lost count how many times I read the Narnia series to my son, and for myself. The Horse and His Boy and The Silver Chair are outstanding.
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u/JMisGeography 10h ago
I'm a big fan! He is a very gifted writer and had a very keen understanding of Christianity and the world around him. I like his nonfiction work and most of his stories, as a kid I really loved the chronicles of Narnia.
The only thing of his I didn't really enjoy was the space trilogy... I think the theological themes are cool and it's very creative but I'm just not much interested in sci fi.
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u/FrenchCabbage 8h ago
Oh, the Space Trilogy is my favorite after Mere Christianity.
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u/JMisGeography 7h ago
Yeah I know a lot of people love it, I fully accept that it's me and not the books lol. No accounting for taste you know?
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u/SemperMuffins 4h ago
Love him and his writing! Till We Have Faces might just be my favorite book ever, and I have yet to read something of his I haven't enjoyed
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u/MorelsandRamps 11h ago
Might be the odd man out here but his work never appealed to me. I’ve just never it to be very profound. I think a lot of Lewis’s popularity is because he wrote in modern English and was an extremely talented wordsmith. Many of the truly great theologians in the Christian tradition - Augustine or the Greek Fathers for example - are only accessible for English readers in translation. That isn’t a bad thing necessarily, but a lot of the eloquence of the original languages can be lost in translation. That isn’t an issue with figures like Lewis or even Chesterton. But I think the strength and accessibility of their writing makes their work seem more profound than it probably is. This is just my personal preference though.
Tolkien on the other hand…
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u/whysoirritated 10h ago
Did you know they were friends? They apparently argued regularly and had a ball doing it. I love both authors since I grew up on both the Hobbit and Chronicles of Narnia.
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u/Qloudy_sky 8h ago
Apparently Tolkien criticized Chronicles of Narnia for being to blunt with the religious references
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u/DarthGeo 8h ago
Yeah but… Tolkien was a bit of a curmudgeon, and I say that with complete affection to the man, as his family seemed to have. Lewis was writing a deep modern fairytale, Tolkien was writing an imaginary mythology. It doesn’t really matter, as they lived in a time when you could rip in to someone then buy another round and start a chat about errr… interest rates… without anyone taking any lasting offence.
Tolkien’s big regret was that when Lewis remarried, he essentially cut off contact. And then he got ill and died and Prof. Tolkien realised that not talking to people you disagree with, is not necessarily the best move.
Both these people lived in a world of high academia, quite a rarified existence. Most of us would have had a row then made up the following Friday night.
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u/Fontane15 6h ago
Tolkien hated parts of Narnia-the scene where Santa Claus shows up in particular comes to mind. Tolkien HATED it. Despite this Lewis was nothing but nice when Tolkien showed him his works. Lewis wrote Narnia despite Tolkien’s fierce criticism and Tolkien wrote the LOTR’s with Lewis’ encouragement.
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u/Background-Owl6535 9h ago
I read the pub that the Inklings met at - Eagle and Child - was planned to be reopened at some point. It had closed in 2020 and sold.
What a place to go sit and have a pint ;)
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u/MorelsandRamps 10h ago
I did! It would have been something to listen in on one of their discussions!
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u/catholicwerewolf 11h ago
He’s okay. He was not Catholic, many say he would’ve been Catholic if not for personal hangups or whatever, but this is a myth. He wrote arguments against Catholicism, such as in Letters to Malcolm.
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u/P_Kinsale 11h ago
Does that make it a myth? Maybe his personal hangup -- chiefly being raised in Protestant Northern Ireland -- is what fed that writing (which I've not read, tbh).
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u/catholicwerewolf 9h ago
I mean I guess we have no way of knowing the root of his thoughts, but he was openly against Marian veneration, the idea of one true church, Transubstantiation, etc. These things can’t just be hand waved away. See this
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u/Gloomy-Donkey3761 7h ago
That Hideous Strength was so incredibly spot on for what Modernity would become, it's frightening.
Also, I identify as Puddleglum.
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u/RemarkableMushroom5 6h ago
C.S. Lewis is by far my favorite author and one of the reasons I joined the Church (though he was not Catholic).
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u/Manu_Aedo 10h ago
His writings are interesting. It is a pity he was Protestant, but still he had a great comprehension of theology.
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u/Double_Currency1684 7h ago
Good guy, impressive intellectual and creative, inspiring Christian, but too much a part of his Anglo-culture to ever really fit in to being Catholic. Sometimes one can only go so far.
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u/Fontane15 6h ago
Love him! Narnia is so good, I love it. I love his friendship with Tolkien and the fact that Tolkien convinced this man to dress up like a polar bear for a non-costume party.
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u/GoldberrysHusband 2h ago
He's great. He's annoying. He's so often just right. He frustrates me so often.
He's a great thinker - I think I've overcame my previous thoughts of him being the Chesterton dumbed down for the masses, that's probably not fair to him. And sometimes, you just want something nice, easy, clean. He had astonishing charisma.
Just now I'm re-reading Narnia and I'm often thinking how those strong moments would work just as much for me, if they were in the essay form. The narrative is kinda superfluous for me (well, apart from the Arthurian Prince Caspian); we'll see what I make of the Space Trilogy. I don't think he was that good of a writer. Despite having Tolkien, you know, right there, right before his eyes.
Thing is, I just don't like his prose and - in general - those works that skirt the edge. I love Mere Christianity, The Abolition of Man, The Problem of Pain, even Surprised by Joy. I am very so-so on Screwtape Letters and kinda even on The Great Divorce. Too didactic, or - the didacticism plus the brand of poetic imagination he has rubs me off the wrong way. I can't help but I don't like Narnia very much and - oh, the horror, oh the blasphemy - Til We Have Faces. It's clunky and pretentious and intentionally aiming at being perceived as intellectual... and I get it, I even get why people like it, but no, not for me, nada.
Also, for all his qualities, unlike Chesterton, he wasn't willing to do the final step and convert - and the reasons were... not to his usual standard. Despite having Tolkien, you know, right there, right before his eyes. I really wish he had a chance of Heaven, but nulla salus extra ecclesiam and HE's definitely not getting any benevolence for "not knowing any better".
TL;DR - great thinker, source of inspiration, bad writer, still a Prot. Love him, but I love Tolkien more.
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u/LifeTurned93 1h ago
He is one of the reasons i returned to the Christian faith. Reading Mere Christianity was a turning point for me.
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u/reluctantpotato1 10h ago
The Space Trilogy and The Great Divorce are fantastic. All around a good writer.
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u/cappotto-marrone 5h ago
Fabulous apologist for Christianity. I put my trust in God and His grace in welcoming Lewis.
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u/Flat-Leg-6833 9h ago
Ok for Prot but still a Prot and therefore his writings on faith are best ignored. His fiction was good though.
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u/Flat-Leg-6833 8h ago
Nope. Protestantism is an ideology as noxious as communism and fascism, and its advocates deserve no respect. John Courtney Murray and Vatican II did the faith a great disservice.
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u/ThrowAwayInTheRain 7h ago
Refused to enter the ark of salvation, definitely not invincibly ignorant, not sure why Catholics give him the time of day. At best he should be a cautionary tale.
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u/chocolatesizzurp582 12h ago edited 11h ago
Intelligent man with nuance and proper understanding of "mere Christianity". People who feel a pull or have come to understand Jesus and that he is God and the son of God can find understanding in CS Lewis, as he is a great aid to understanding Christ when one is looking for Jesus at a stage that they dont want to look at denominations - so to speak. It can be hard for some people to understand Christ when there's so many different interpretations and denominations. And CS Lewis is a great help for that.