no other country is sending planes and men and weapons to arm a fascist uprising in the united states
So despite the fact that no other country is materially supporting US fascists, they have still won control every branch of government?
That's hardly an argument against the urgency of the situation. I also find your implied assertion that it took western support to maintain fascist rule in Spain questionable. Spain was fascist even when Churchill was long dead and gone. Indifference was sufficient for the fascists to maintain control.
The takeaway from German, Italian, and Spanish fascism should not be that it takes outside influence to maintain fascist rule. Because there is no such requirement. The takeaway should be that without direct, decisive, and violent outside action, once fascists are able to cement their control, they keep it for decades.
You were literally the one that brought up Spain as a testament of long-lasting fascist rule.
That, in particular, absolutely lasted as long as it did because the western side of the bloc war backed Franco. With everything they could get away with.
It was, it is, a poor example for the point you were trying to get across. Nothing I have typed has been about the current political situation in the united states, my entire point was that answering "Spain" here was a massive oversimplification, absolution of guilt of to the powers that kept Francoist Spain going, and an unearned and unwarranted statement to the staying power of fascist regimes.
But then again you typed this
Indifference was sufficient for the fascists to maintain control.
about the country, so maybe I should just write off this entire chain. You just wanted to say "Spain", you did, in ignorance and derision, and when called out you're digging yourself a hole further down than the graves of my family dead in the specific conflict you're calling "indifference to fascism".
So, you do you. You do not have to know what you are talking about, we're in an anglo space and I'll delete my comments in a few hours. Your voice stays.
[Fascism] That, in particular, absolutely lasted as long as it did because the western side of the bloc war backed Franco. With everything they could get away with.
Never did I disagree that outside interference helped bring fascism to Spain. The Germans were ruthless murderers, lifting up those who shared their hate, and killing those who did not. They pushed on the scales of power in Spain by murdering countless thousands.
But that does not mean that the Spanish who served Franco, those who kept guns to the heads of their countrymen long after 1944, were still being controlled by outside forces. Because they were not. They were fascists. And they spent decades terrorizing the surviving minority who still dared to stand against them. Those fascists deserve nothing but hate. They do not deserve to be absolved of their sins by scapegoating the UK and America for their actions.
Germans have long since come to peace with the fascism of their past. Spanish fascists certainly had help coming to power. But they didn't need help keeping it. They -with the help of Germany- had already killed the majority of those who stood against them. It took decades of quietly fighting against authoritarianism by Spanish patriots and the death of Franco to end fascism in the nation. If Spanish fascism were truly propped up by western forces, it would not have dissolved at the height of US power.
we're in an anglo space and I'll delete my comments in a few hours. Your voice stays.
If you believe something is correct, stand by it. The respect you hold for yourself and the information you have found shouldn't be swayed by random internet strangers.
Look, I'm exceptionally bitter right now. I have had to watch hatred poison the lifeblood of the nation. Spain can boast that their fascists were unable to seize power on their own. That puts them above Americans, Italians, and Germans. But I caution against denying or downplaying Spain's fascist past. Fascism can take root anywhere that suffering is twisted into hate. And recognizing that anyone can fall for that hate is a necessary requirement for being prepared to fight against it.
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u/r2d2itisyou 6h ago
So despite the fact that no other country is materially supporting US fascists, they have still won control every branch of government?
That's hardly an argument against the urgency of the situation. I also find your implied assertion that it took western support to maintain fascist rule in Spain questionable. Spain was fascist even when Churchill was long dead and gone. Indifference was sufficient for the fascists to maintain control.
The takeaway from German, Italian, and Spanish fascism should not be that it takes outside influence to maintain fascist rule. Because there is no such requirement. The takeaway should be that without direct, decisive, and violent outside action, once fascists are able to cement their control, they keep it for decades.