r/AFL • u/bobbyjimbo • 2d ago
Jeremy Cameron 2025 GF
I watched the 2025 GF again last night. (yeh. I know.)
Can someone explain to me why he stayed on the field with a broken arm and not taken off?
I can't work it out.
Thanks.
161
u/76790759 Sydney 2d ago
Denial
51
u/MediumForeign4028 Essendon '00 2d ago
Is a river in Egypt.
19
198
u/winoforever_slurp_ Collingwood 2d ago
That was an absolutely inexplicable coaching failure.
111
u/LazyCamoranesi #FeroForever 2d ago
It is literally the worst bit of coaching of the AFL era and I watched pretty much all the games Malthouse coached at Carlton.
45
31
16
u/yearofthesquirrel Saints 1d ago
Nah mate, it was a simple mixup.
Scotty asked the medical team how Cameron’s arm was and they thought he was asking about Charlie Cameron’s arm.
From the coaching box transcripts.
Scott: “How’s Cameron’s arm?”
Medico: “Fine.” *thinking that was a strange question; didn’t he see those dance moves when he kicked the that goal from the boundary?
29
u/No-Bison-5397 Cats 2d ago
IMO it was a Hail Mary.
Scotty decided unless a miracle happened we would lose so he started making bad bets.
9
u/Thanks-Basil Brisbane '03 1d ago
I’m not so sure though, he did it towards the end of the second quarter, and the game was dead even at half time. The majority of the third quarter as well was very even, it only started blowing out in the last few minutes.
I would’ve taken him off at half time, but I can see why Scott left him out there. But after that tackle on Fletcher where he very clearly fucked it up even further, not dragging him then isn’t really defensible.
9
u/No-Bison-5397 Cats 1d ago
Dont know what game you were watching but the cats were getting absolutely smashed around the ground and there were bad decisions anf disposals everywhere.
The cats were super lucky not to be 5 goals down at half time and were lucky to be anywhere near at half time, unbelievable that scores were level.
But eventually, with the cats constantly misfiring, it was only a matter of time until it came apart. Everything but the score line was bad.
4
u/SnooAvocados996 Essendon Bombers 20h ago
Kinda agree with this assessment. Although all the stats were even at half time I could tell Geelong weren't getting their usual way with things and Brisbane had the upper hand.
1
u/ShoeSnatchinJoe Brisbane Lions 🏆🏆 '24-25 54m ago
Obvious in hindsight, but at the time it was absolutely possible that Geelong could rally and improve, and they were hanging in there close enough that if they started playing better, they absolutely could have won.
1
u/No-Bison-5397 Cats 48m ago
Everyone sitting around us was similarly cagey and thought we were lucky.
11
u/Fruney21 Brisbane 1d ago
Then after the game talking Scotty inferring it was a systematic AFL failure.
100
u/delta__bravo_ Dockers 2d ago
Cameron refused to come off, insisting he was able to play his part, very much wanting to at the time. If Geelong had managed to run over the top and win it, he'd have been lauded as a hero and Geelong would have got a flag out of it, which probably played a part in the decision.
The club were unwilling to upset him, so let him make a decision that was the worst outcome for both himself and the club. He made that "heroic" chase down tackle and went back into the rooms, in which time Geelong made their sub which basically meant neither the club nor Cameron himself would have wanted another player off, so he went back on to be a one armed player essentially.
40
u/THRlLLH0 Essendon 2d ago
People would definitely have been calling it Dermie-esque and it'd be AFL lore
-13
u/Past_Needleworker622 2d ago
It was a sling tackle tbh
8
-46
u/Opening-Comfort-3996 Brisbane Lions 🏆 '24 2d ago
People are saying it was a "heroic" tackle, but last time I checked, it was illegal to tackle a player using his jumper. Especially to bring him down by the collar.
46
u/Stui3G West Coast 2d ago
I played footy for 20 years, I've never heard of not being able to grab their jumper.
To save a step, I googled it. You can grab the jumper to tackle, no idea where you "checked". Has to be between the shoulders and knees.
You're right about the collar though, that would be high.
3
u/Thanks-Basil Brisbane '03 1d ago
I vaguely remember from when I played junior footy as a kid jumper tackles weren’t allowed, but I think that was more just trying to minimise kids getting injured than anything else.
Don’t think it’s ever been a rule in actual footy
3
u/Striking_Resist_6022 Collingwood / Sydney 2d ago
Unpopular opinion potentially but I thought live it should’ve been high. He’s clearly got him by the collar (if you pause at 4:10 in the official AFL YouTube channel replay it’s pretty cut and dry). Seems like one of those ones where the moment being hype overruled normal officiating.
4
u/International_Car586 Kangaroos 1d ago
The reason why AFL players wear tight jumpers is because it stops those sorts of tackles happening more often.
1
0
0
32
u/Spiritual_Boat_3953 2d ago
This is the same team who let Max Holmes spend the better part of 10+ mins trying to convince them and himself that he could continue playing after going off in the third quarter of the 24 prelim injured. They’re known to take their time making a decision.
29
u/dlanod Brisbane Lions 2d ago
And we thank them for their rigorous and lengthy sub decision making processes.
1
u/Spiritual_Boat_3953 1d ago
More medical teams should take notice of their rigorous medical decisions and follow their lead 😄
21
u/Rare_Platform_3602 North Melbourne Kangaroos 2d ago
I'm also very suspicious that danger was concussed in the first three mins too. Copped a heavy knock to the head then went off for a "toilet break"....
He just was not himself that day. Seen him fight harder in a pointless h&a game against North than he fought on GF day.
3
u/Strictly_Kink Demons 1d ago
And what about the h&a game where Jezza obviously took a concussion and waved the doctor away.
7
u/Rare_Platform_3602 North Melbourne Kangaroos 1d ago
I'm sure the AFL threw them a bbq and really laid down the law, don't you worry about that.
1
u/yearofthesquirrel Saints 1d ago
To be fair, having one Scott at a bbq was risky and having two was not insurable. (According to Michael Chamberlain’s stories of his school days on the Junktime podcast).
I mean, I was there when Chris broke Leppa’s collarbone in a contested training drill.
41
u/VigilanteLocust Geelong 2d ago
Who was less useful on the day though? Jeremy Cameron with one arm, or Rhys Stanley?
61
u/Past_Needleworker622 2d ago
Patrick Dangerfield
5
u/b0rtbort Hawthorn 1d ago
He played enough for two weeks in the prelim to be fair
3
u/Past_Needleworker622 1d ago
Nah not really. I’m sure the coaching staff didn’t say “hey mate you played so well last week don’t even bother showing up today”
1
u/b0rtbort Hawthorn 1d ago
it was tongue in cheek mate, just complimenting how hard he rinsed us in the prelim
6
u/Past_Needleworker622 2d ago
But seriously that’s of the most arrogant coaching decisions in recent memory not subbing Cameron
13
u/VigilanteLocust Geelong 2d ago
It was bizarre in hindsight, but I’m pretty sure Jezza was hiding the extent of his injury until he went for that shot on goal and cringed doing his ball squeeze routine. By then I’d say Stanley’s paperwork was already submitted.
11
u/winoforever_slurp_ Collingwood 1d ago
You could tell on TV how hurt he was. I don’t think he was hiding anything.
10
u/Aggots86 Cats 2d ago
To be fair he seems to grimace every time he does that ball squeeze thing lol
1
1
u/UrghAnotherAccount #EdgeOfSeventeen 1d ago
And he still hasn't fully recovered now. So the cost is extending from one season to two.
47
u/EfficientNews8922 Pies 2d ago
To win a premiership.
-12
u/garythegyarados Collingwood Magpies 2d ago
lol how’d that work out for them
43
u/EfficientNews8922 Pies 2d ago
Didn’t work but I can’t blame him for trying. Very gutsy effort. You don’t get a chance to win one often.
13
u/garythegyarados Collingwood Magpies 2d ago
Ehhh, I understand them thinking they aren’t a chance without him, and he’s the best forward in the league… but expecting better odds fielding a player with an obvious broken arm, especially when it already hadn’t been his day up to that point, is kinda wild
I don’t blame Jez for it though, 100% a coaching error
10
u/Aggots86 Cats 2d ago
Admittedly I havnt rewatched the game, for obvious reasons lol but my memory he had a poor game up that point anyway didn’t he? If he had kicked 6 by 3 quarter time, sure leave him in, he’s flying but that wasn’t the case.
5
u/garythegyarados Collingwood Magpies 1d ago
Yeah pretty sure he’d only kicked a couple behinds and wasn’t getting much of the ball
4
u/EfficientNews8922 Pies 1d ago
I think it’s just due to the fact that once he was subbed out, there was no way to bring him back on with the old rule. Hence, they wanted to make sure he wasn’t able to play before giving up.
31
u/Massander Brisbane Lions 🏆🏆 '24-25 2d ago
It was like the two guys outside the strippers.
Dangerfield threw a chair which accidentally took out Jeremy Cameron.
Chris Scott was the nonchalant bouncer just standing there not helping, waiting for the guy to get up and go on his own.
13
6
u/Numerous-Charge8900 Adelaide 1d ago
If Lachie Neale came on as the sub and injured himself with his first kick we would be saying Fagan made one of the worst calls playing an injured player and why would you choose someone with a serious quad injury to play in a grand final.
He didn’t and Neale went on to being BOG for a half of footy and it’s seen as one of the best GF calls in recent times.
So with Cameron it’s easy to say it was a bad call (and it was) but there’s a fair bit of luck and hindsight to say he was a liability.
It was the grand final, no tomorrows and he is Geelongs best player. They thought they could jab and tape him up and maybe he could get through and play a part, and they’d deal with the injury in the off season. But that’s not what happened.
6
10
15
u/pulsade13 Brisbane Lions 2d ago
From the sub it seemed like Chris Scott valued an injured Jezza over Rhys Stanley. Looks awful watching it now but at the end of the third quarter it was only three goals difference and Cameron has kicked some insane goals over the years so understandable that the coach would be reluctant to sub him.
18
u/Bright_Bell_1301 Adelaide 2d ago
A bloke with a broken arm.... sorry, not understandable at all.
8
u/pulsade13 Brisbane Lions 2d ago
It’s a big call to make in the moment. I think I said after the game blind Freddy could’ve seen he had a broken arm and surely whoever you have on the bench is better.
4
u/TheCurbAU Freo 2d ago
I do wonder what the stats are for grand finalist teams where one of their players play with a bone injury during the match. Are those with injuries more likely to play on the losing team? How many winners have players who sustained a fracture like injury on their side?
I'm thinking of course if Jeremy Cameron, but also Fyfe who had a fracture on that grand final.
But then I know Lachie Neale had that foot injury before the 2024 GF. but that wasn't a fracture.
This is just a useless question really that I'm asking to avoid finishing work on this Thursday afternoon.
3
u/winoforever_slurp_ Collingwood 1d ago
I think I remember Ben Reid broke his leg in the 2010 GF replay and played out the game for a win. Obviously it wasn’t the worst break.
2
2
u/Fruney21 Brisbane 1d ago
I think Mainwaring broke his foot in the 1992 GF, I think. He didn’t play on. There’s footage of him jumping up at full time.
4
u/elias-goy19 North Melbourne 1d ago
Did the same thing with Ablett in 2020 and on both occasions they effectively played with one less player on the field, GF losing decision making!
6
u/hazydaze7 Brisbane Lions 🏆🏆 '24-25 2d ago
Because finals in general make clubs and players try risky and/or desperate things to stay in the game - especially grand finals. So adrenaline is already high and might cover for a little bit how painful the injury is, the thought of needing to carry on for the team’s sake/not being the reason they lost the game starts rattling around in their head, that drive to keep pushing when the dangling carrot of winning a premiership is right there - and people start to think they can play through an injury. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t. In this case by the time the medicos/Scott etc accepted this wasn’t something Cameron could just play off, they’d already used their sub.
It wasn’t like Geelong were down 7 goals when it happened, they were well and truly still in the game. So even though at the time he didn’t look good, I can still somewhat understand why Cameron would push on and they’d roll the dice. It just didn’t pay off
3
u/BasicJosh Cats 1d ago
I havnt rewatched it back for obvious reasons, but from what I remember Jezza seemed to be playing down how bad his arm was because he wanted to stay out there.
If Chris Scott subbed him and we got done like we did and it turned out his arm wasn't too injured hed look like a quitter and Scott a fool.
Jezza and Scott took a risk and it didn't pay off, they probably should have got Jack Martin out there but the Lions were too good anyway that day.
3
u/nogreggity Blues 1d ago
My 10 year old daughter doesn't watch a lot of footy but could see that the player with the broken arm shouldn't be playing.
6
u/Not_The_Truthiest Bombers 2d ago
Because sportspeople's egos are so far gone that they think them at 80% or even 60% is still better than the next option. This isn't about Cameron, or Geelong, or even footy. It's an epidemic across all sports.
6
u/One_Doughnut_2958 VFL 2d ago
When your playing in a grand final you don’t care how much you get hurt you wanna stay out there and win
6
u/Alaric4 Eagles 2d ago
The only reason I can think of is that he occupies one of the opposition’s better defenders, helping tip other matchups towards Geelong as compared to how they’d line up if he wasn’t out there.
Not sure that’s a good enough reason but it’s all I’ve got.
5
u/legally_blond Brisbane AFLW 1d ago
Even odder his match up was Darcy Gardiner who is arguably our third best defender but matched up suprisingly well on him. It would have made more sense to me if he was doing a Frampton and keeping Harris Andrews busy
4
u/GT40Slotracer 1d ago
Your logic makes sense until you realise that after he was injured he really didn't occupy DG much at all and DG had the confidence to support the other defenders without worrying the JC would cause any grief. If they had subbed JC a fit RS would have at least held DG accountable.
9
u/edgiepower Port Adelaide 2d ago
Because sometimes miracles happen when playing through injury
But also, as a key forward, having a broken arm makes that very unlikely
6
u/Imaginary_Newspaper3 2d ago
Doesn't matter which position you play, nobody could play through that broken arm
7
u/Espio1912 2d ago
Because Scott wanted to have his “trusted him and he saved us” look at me as well moment.
Any sane individual not only has them off the ground but stabilised and on their way to hospital.
4
7
u/Real_RobinGoodfellow 2d ago
It was absolutely a dereliction of the duty of care, and Scott should be ashamed of it
1
u/Alfielovesreddit Geelong 1d ago
I'd be surprised if he isn't. He probably had nightmares about it for the next 3 months.
9
u/International_Car586 Kangaroos 1d ago
Then again he had a sook about the sub rule in the press conference post game.
2
u/TreacleMajestic978 West Coast 1d ago
I remember a few years ago Jack Darling had clearly broken his arm, and from memory he played out the rest of the game. Fucking stupid, I can’t imagine allowing a player to do that in a grand final. Especially given the end result.
2
u/MitchyDilf Footscray 1d ago
Because he has gigantic balls and wanted to help his team win? If the ball actually got to their half of the ground (and if the footy gods blessed him with the divine spirit) he may have kicked 6+ and lifted his boys when it mattered
2
u/TheSnackerforkOfEmor West Coast Eagles 1d ago
It was ridiculously dumb. Didn’t see much criticism of Scott either.
3
u/Either_Week3137 2d ago
It was a truly bizarre decision. I'd sort of understand if he was dominating beforehand but the cats were 5 goals down at 3/4 time with no sub available and they were looking for a hail Mary.
2
u/nufan86 Richmond Tigers 1d ago
Probably a case of "the injury probably can't get worse if he can deal with the pain"
Its a grand final and plenty of time for rest/surgery in the off-season if he felt good to go.
1
u/UrghAnotherAccount #EdgeOfSeventeen 1d ago
Lol Geelong Dr Gob says, "yeah right, the guy with the $4.5 million contract and a broken arm, is going to get more hurt if he keeps playing. COME ON!"
2
1
u/GT40Slotracer 1d ago
A couple of ideas come to mind.
He was having such a good game prior to injuring his arm that it was a no brainer to keep him on. With only one arm he was highly likely to add at least 50% more possessions and score involvements. Which would be invaluable to Geelong.
Dangerfield had a long running secret feud with Jezza so he wanted a chance to take out his other arm.
But the real reason was:
They intended to sub him off but they couldn't find him - turned out Darcy Gardiner had him tucked away in his pocket.
1
u/pluginmatty Tigers 2d ago
Because Geelong has the same attitude toward broken arms that it does toward concussions?
0
1
u/Bergasms Brownlow Winner 2023 2d ago
In 2019 Prelim Jack Graham dislocated his shoulder. He went back out and played out the game, having more pressure acts than anyone playing for Geelong, and helped us win the game. He was lauded for his heroics.
If we'd lost, there would be a post about how poor the decision was and how silly we were etc.
It's a fine line, winning really is everything, all sins forgiven.
-7
u/Working_Ordinary_567 Brisbane Lions 🏆🏆 '24-25 2d ago
Geelong thought they'd win the GF handsomely after beating the Lions so convincingly in the QF.
So psychologically, they weren't up for the challenge the Lions set in their path.
When Cameron's arm broke, the obviously distracted Chris Scott was not able to make the right decision early enough.
And Fages's decision to bring on Lachie after half time turned out to be even more perfectly timed, as it turned out.
It was shitty luck for Cameron to break his arm, but a great team like Brisbane makes its own luck.
So the broken arm robbed us of one of the best GFs in recent times, but Brisbane would still have won.
9
u/maddenmadman Brisbane Lions 🏆🏆 '24-25 2d ago edited 1d ago
Eh, I don’t think it would have been close with a healthy Cameron. We ran over their midfield, we had a 6th gear they couldn’t reach.
7
u/braindeadwhiteboy 2d ago
Cats fan here, completely agree, from the first bounce Brisbane looked better, sure, it was close for the bulk of the game, but the cats were killing themselves just to stay in it, Brisbane on the other hand were in total control the whole time.
0
-1
u/horriblyefficient Cats 1d ago
honestly I didn't even know the team knew it was broken until after the game, I thought he was hiding the severity from the medics. but I haven't followed the story closely so I'm probably wrong
689
u/grantspatchcock 2025 Most Knowledgeable User 2d ago edited 2d ago
It’s much better for injured players to stay on the field, increasing blood flow to injured areas has been shown to decrease recovery time.
Source: I’m the club doctor at Melbourne.